Start from Scratch
If there’s one thing that always stirs up a debate for our family… it’s golf. Some of us provide sensible, measured and articulate points. Others, chat complete s**t from start to finish. You can decide who’s who for yourselves!
Start from Scratch
S2 E11: Exploring the Mental Game with Experts Karl Morris and Gary Nicol and Ryder Cup Guesses!
As we prepare to tee off on our exciting new YouTube Channel, Start from Scratch Golf, we can't help but indulge in a bit of friendly banter and competitive challenges. Amidst the fun, golf industry veterans Karl Morris and Gary Nicol join us to shed light on the mental aspect of golf. Be prepared to sharpen your skills as these experts share pearls of wisdom from their vast experiences and discuss the increasingly significant role of emotions in golf. Bonus for listeners - get ready to benefit from an exclusive discount link for their Lost Art series!
Going beyond the traditional physical skills, we simplify golf and delve into the power of the right questions and the necessity of transferring your practice range form to the actual course. The episode further explores the fascinating world of golf research and the mental strength required for the game - taking cues from the performances of Brooks and Viktor Hovland.
Weighing the merits of our chosen Ryder Cup teams, we tackle the unpredictability of golfing abilities and the importance of mental fortitude. Join us in this lively exchange, and don't miss out on the chance to increase your knowledge and love for the game as we navigate the complex and intriguing world of golf with Karl and Gary.
I have seen it.
Speaker 3:I must have.
Speaker 1:I must have have you seen it. Do you know what? I honestly, I got no crumbs here now saying that I am rattled. I am rattled. This guy, this little kid, this little weasel, welcome to episode 11. It is me and Josh again. We are fresh from the episode with Zach Gold. We have returning guests again this week in Dr Karl Morris and Gary Nicholl. They will be joining us shortly.
Speaker 1:I thought I would use the time here to go through. Josh, I have a word in you. I have just gone right into it. Go for it. I was thinking then about some tips I can collect from these guys going into this week. I have had a match here. I am bringing the match up. Don't worry about that. 100%, let's go.
Speaker 1:I thought I would start with giving a bit of an overview of what is happening with us moving forward. To be fair to Josh, he did suggest this a while ago. I think it is season one. It was me that was slowing the uptake there. We are going to start a YouTube channel. We are going to start with our match in Hoi Leak and see where we go from there. It is something we have been keen to do.
Speaker 1:If you want to get an early subscribe. Is that a word? If you want to subscribe early to the channel, please do so. You will be notified when the video comes out. It is at start from scratch golf. You will see familiar logo, although slightly different Same theme. It is exciting for us because it means we can have video evidence of everything we talked about over the last three years. You will be able to see exactly what we mean when we talk you through Josh's game. It will also hold us to account If we are giving Josh shit. It means we have to play decently well on video as well.
Speaker 1:You literally took the word out of my mouth. This is your chance to put all the supposed crap I chat to bed. On the other side of that, I will take every opportunity to prove you and Eddie and any of the podcasts that started me. I would say we put you to bed often, but you just don't take it on. What does that mean? Just recently, with the Texas scramble, we have proved that you were chatting shit and couldn't back it up. That is the problem. You need things set in stone. No, no, texas scramble was a complete one-off. The amount of times I have proved you all wrong and it has not been documented or even talked about is a lot. Of course you would bring the one time I am not playing my best to the forefront of the table. But another note I was in the golf club last night with Sam Fiegun.
Speaker 1:Sam Fiegun is furious. Why? Because he offered you and Eddie out in a doubles match Pause a second. I have seen this text message For the listeners. I haven't been on Facebook since about 2001. Eddie is not on Facebook either. Carry on with your story, but that context is really important. You mentioned something I have to come round to. He is furious that you have not accepted the challenge. You have come on the pod and you have dragged his name to the edge. You and Eddie have absolutely cacked your pants at the thought of playing Jack and him in doubles Gross as well, might I add. You have seen that text message. Have you seen it? I have. No, I am rattled. This little kid, this little weasel. He has sent a message to Eddie and said name a time and place, something along those cocky lines.
Speaker 1:He has not had a response. We are not on Facebook. How have you seen the message? I have seen it. I have seen it. I have seen it. I have seen it. I have seen it. I have seen it, I have seen it.
Speaker 1:How's that gonna work? You tell me, mate, I don't know how you're gonna defeat yourself. All I know is you're gonna find some creative way to do it, whether it be duffing, duffing your eyes, shotting to a creek or whatever you know, shanking, thinning chips, missing four footers. Me and Osh, who will also be playing with us on Wednesday, discussed this a long ago, and all I have to do is rock out there, play my own game and you will defeat yourself, mate, just like everyone else did, just like they did. That is such bullshit. But I'm gonna ask you on the tee, on the first tee, how many shots I give you in a match play. So I don't even wanna hear it now. I'll ask you how many shots I'm giving you. I've got a number in my head. You should have a number in your head and we'll see.
Speaker 1:I was planning on giving you five shots. You were planning on giving me five shots. Yeah, I take it. Yeah, okay, let's go. How often have you lose then? Oh, my god, I'm sick of this shit. Honest to God, fuck me, the San Figen. Things thrown me. And now that is thrown me. Well, I was gonna say you sound mentally exhausted already and you're not even playing either, as in the match. Yeah, what's happened today is my two year old has just generally fucked me off. He has just gone away. He's woke up today and chosen just to ruin my day. So you're trying to tell me that a lad who's two years old and can barely speak and doesn't play golf has rattled you? Yeah, what about a couple of 26 year olds who do golf and can shot shit Do?
Speaker 1:you know how many you do on. This is the context I'm giving you. Do you know how many times he's told me to go away today? I know it must be at least 500 times in different tones, right. And then I've come on the podcast and I've heard about San Figen, and now I'm hearing this shit from you. I'm done, it will all be documented. I can make your program. We're gonna have to destroy you. But yeah, we will tell Wednesday to see. Everyone will see. Okay, well, we're playing on Thursday, so Thursday, let's go On that note. You are aware it's Thursday, right, because you've got a track record of getting things wrong. I actually really thought it was on Wednesday. All I know is at 2pm. Yeah, let's get the guests on, let's go hey.
Speaker 1:Karl, are you all right?
Speaker 3:How are you doing? You all right.
Speaker 1:Good thanks. Yeah, it's such a long time now I think it's best. Part three Is Gary, can you hear me? I can, yes, can you hear me? Yeah, good Thanks, nice to meet you and you. How are you bud? Hey Gary, hey Karl.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we're good, good to you. Yeah, it's been a while, hasn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, how was your bank holiday?
Speaker 3:I've been working most of the day, so I've had no other holiday. Yeah, me too.
Speaker 2:I was blissfully unaware. It was a bike hold until about 5 o'clock.
Speaker 1:It's got to your archer field, aren't you? I am yes, yeah, that's one that I want to get my feet on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's worth a trip.
Speaker 1:I wanted to say, Karl, that actually the last episode you have is still one of the most downloaded episodes we've had.
Speaker 3:Really.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, really yeah. Who'd have thought people wanted to improve their mental part of the game?
Speaker 3:They're all doing it quietly, that's for sure, yeah. They don't want to admit it.
Speaker 1:I don't know if you remember Josh, Karl, but I will say this You've made a career of giving great advice and working with solid professionals, and not one of the things you've said has sunk in with Josh.
Speaker 3:Sometimes there's challenges and insurmountable problems, and the skill is knowing the difference between the two.
Speaker 2:Maybe it's just a delayed reaction. Maybe it's just a slow learner.
Speaker 1:Yeah, maybe it's just it takes a few years to settle in. Yeah, so how many books, how many have lost art series Books are there now?
Speaker 3:Three.
Speaker 1:Three. There's the Lost Art of Putting, the Lost Art of Golf.
Speaker 2:A putting, playing golf and the short game. Oh, the short game. Yeah, that was it. Yeah, and we've actually just done an online kind of video program for the Lost Art of Putting as well.
Speaker 1:Where's that, Gary?
Speaker 2:Well, it's actually available on Karl's website and mine, so I should have sent you a copy actually, and we can offer your listeners a little discount at the end if you want.
Speaker 1:If you come back to that at the end before you sign off, then I'll put the link on with our releasing of the podcast. It's going to be this Friday, okay, perfect, yeah, comes out at 6am on a Friday if Josh wants to get inside.
Speaker 2:It might not be up then to listen to it, but it's alright, don't worry.
Speaker 1:We released at 6am on a Friday morning and we've managed to do that 50% of the time because of Josh. Right, okay, yeah, I'm up at that time either, gary, often. So yeah, don't worry about it. No.
Speaker 2:I don't work Fridays anymore, so oh nice, I said not after 6am.
Speaker 1:I don't blame you. I wanted to ask you both, actually, if you'd seen the clip. It was a while ago now, but it made me think of you, karl of Patrick Haddington walking down the fairway and the interviewer with him is what? 90 seconds about the mental of the game. Saw that. Yeah, what you thought of that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean it was. He was just basically saying, wasn't he, that that's the distinguishing factor at that level, isn't it? Well, I think, at many levels of the game, that what makes the difference is what's going through somebody's mind in terms of being on the golf course and how that affects the performance, and yet still, people do almost everything other than work on the mind.
Speaker 1:I was going to ask is, obviously, the main question is how do you train that? Because I was looking at, the example that came to my mind was Jordan Spieth in the 2016 Masters I think it was, you know when he had that sort of mini-collapse on 12, didn't he? He can't say that he's a choker at all because of what he's achieved in the game, but what would be the difference between Tiger Woods there and him, for example, someone who was an absolute mental monster and something like that happening you look at the World of 2010 as well Is it? Would you feel that they're guarding from the loss and Tiger is going for the win, or what would you sort of attribute that to?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean I think even you know players. You look at the famous meltdowns in the game with Jordan Spieth and Greg Norman going back in time and I think we've got to be very careful about how we Rory when he lost the Masters that time. And I think we've got to be very careful that we label those experiences, because virtually everybody who's played the game has gone through a situation like that, where the game falls apart and they really struggle. I think the acceptance of that is a big part of it and an understanding that it happens for everybody. But that doesn't define you as a golfer. You know, the key thing when you've had a situation like that and this is relevant for everybody listening as well is to actually, rather than to be really upset about it and create a kind of belief around it. It's going to just get curious about it. What was actually going on in that situation? Did I start getting faster with everything? Did I start getting slower or overthinking everything? What was the actual pattern that I created in that moment? And I think if you can be more curious about those situations, as upsetting as they might be at the time, then you're able to just reduce the intensity of emotion about it afterwards and move on and learn from it.
Speaker 3:I think it was Tom Watson. There's a great video about him. He talked about how he'd actually blown a number of tournaments before he actually became a serial major winner. He came out with a great phrase he said when I learned how to breathe, I learned how to win, and he'd obviously looked back on those tournaments that hadn't worked out that he'd blown leads etc. And maybe found something in his breathing pattern had changed. But it was something that he'd learned, he observed about himself and then moved forward from it. So I think you know that's the key message for me, for everybody really is rather than create this belief this is who I am or this is what I do, just get curious about what you did in those situations, and then you can actually begin to learn from that and approach it differently the next time.
Speaker 2:I think that's a great point.
Speaker 2:I think we're all too always way too quick to judge and form a judgment of what happened.
Speaker 2:But if you actually sit down after you know Carl and I are both big believers and exponents of journaling and actually write down what did happen in that instance, what was going on or happened, you know you make up a story about what may or may not have happened.
Speaker 2:But if you give it a little bit of time and you know a day or two, or even later that day or whenever, just to sit and reflect and observe what did actually happen, and then you know we can all make stories up that we keep in our heads. But I think when you start to write these things down in a journal or in a book or a notepad, whatever it may well be, then you get a bit more honesty because you're kind of non-judgmental with what you're saying. You know, as one's told, that writing is a physical act of thinking and if you just let the thoughts kind of run from your brain down your arm, through your hands, through pen, onto the page, onto the paper, you actually get quite an honest appraisal of what really happened. But as I say, we're always way too quick to judge others and ourselves especially ourselves.
Speaker 1:That's such an interesting point you guys raised, because when you talked about that, then in terms of being curious, etc. The person that came to my mind was Matthew Fitzpatrick and the way that he writes down every single shot he's ever hit in, you know, since he was about 15. I don't think I've ever thought, I've ever analyzed how I thought about a shot, and obviously I know I know a lot of people think, oh, we don't experience pressure as amateur golfers, but you do. I think, like you said, they got it. I think every person does. You know, whether it be on the personal best round, you're trying to break Katie, whatever. I don't think I've ever sat there and analyzed right, how did I feel over that shot? What was?
Speaker 2:I and they analyze the results and they analyze the results, we don't under. That's the thing about data and statistics. They're all very much based on the out. What was the context? What were you feeling in that moment? What was it for? Were you trying to win a tournament? Were you trying to beat your lowest ever score? Were you trying to get your handicap down? Was it in a match play situation? Did you feel under a bit of pressure? You know that's where the mistakes show up. You don't just all of a sudden start hitting it sideways or doffing it or topping it or thinning it. You know, something causes that. We only ever look at the outcomes, not what. We look at the effect rather than the cause. You know, if you don't trace it back to the root cause and you just keep trying to fix the effect, you're going to go round in circles chasing your tail. How?
Speaker 3:often and the key point with that, josh as well, is that you know, if you strip all of this away and make it, I like trying to make things as simple as possible with everything that I do with plays, because we're just drowning in complexity these days. That was that much information out there. You just get really simple about it and so, well, okay, what is it that I'm trying to do to get better at golf? Well, to me there's two key elements. You're trying to develop skills, which obviously there's a brain perspective to that. How do you best develop skills from a learning perspective?
Speaker 3:But then everybody listening to this has got certain levels of skills. You know they may need to get improved those skills, but that's one thing. But then the second thing is how do you access those skills? Now, you access those skills by actually understanding a little bit more about that brain-bodied connection, about how your thought process tends to work on the golf course, and that's why you know Gary's mentioned journaling.
Speaker 3:You know it's such a simple thing to do, but to start with, the habit of every time that you play, to think about the three best shots that you've hit, write those down, but just write down what was going through your mind, how you're actually creating that shot, what did you go through? And you'll start to see patterns emerge. You'll start to get a better understanding of you as a golfer, of what you can do to then access the skills that you've got, because I would guess 90% or more of people listening if they could just access what they currently have, they'd be a lot happier golfers. Yeah, we all want to get better. We all want to, you know, develop, hit it further and improve our skills, but just being able to access what we currently have. I think most people would be delighted if they could do that more often.
Speaker 1:Can I ask on that? Because it was building up from what I wanted to say anyway, because I'm that person that over complicates everything. So I've got. I'm the opposite of not thinking about my shots or my game. I just overthink to the point where I've exhausted myself and I'm no longer interested. So, to simplify it, what questions should I be asking in approaching a shot and also reflecting on my round, to save me going through 100 questions and going on Google and feeling lost in the system. If, by journaling what do you think I should be going and looking back on what the question, what the key questions I've been asking myself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we actually. We actually covered or created a chapter the first week. We wrote the lost start putting, which was basically two questions. The first one was is it possible? What is the shot here? First of all, is it a driver? Is it three wood? Is it pitching when stick darn, is a pitch run? Whatever it is, and is it possible? I can play the shot Because asking questions, we've learned over the years that questions focus your attention, but as golfers we tend to ask really really poor questions. You know, why am I shit? Why can't I?
Speaker 1:play the game.
Speaker 2:Why do I play this game? Why are the four in front taking so bloody long? So we asked some terrible questions that really don't provide. If you ask bad questions, you'll get bad answers. So for me it all starts or for us it all starts with you know what is the shot here. It's a simple question, yeah, but it gives you clarity on what the task is, because playing a golf shot is a pretty straightforward test. Going from point eight to point B, Is it possible I can play the shot? And the third one, which is perhaps the most important, is what's a really good version of this shot? Look like, If you can't see the shot, if you can't see the ball flying through there the way you want it to, you've got a pretty extensive actually performing that shot or creating that shot with any amount of success.
Speaker 1:Is the driving range a good example of what you've just touched on there, gary, instead of sort of you know, you've got the driving range and you are, in its very essence, just hitting a golf shot. But, like you say, it's quite a simple task to do just going, then hitting a golf shot, whereas what you should be doing is going and envisioning what golf shot you need to hit, which is why people can't bring their so called driving range form to the course.
Speaker 2:I think there's a massive difference in environment when you go to the range. If you ask most people when they go to the range what they actually do, they'll say I go to hit balls. You know, a lot of people go to the range and it's almost like a race to see how quickly they can get through the basket of balls. And they might often use the same club to hit the same kind of ball to the target, time after time after time after time. Now, we don't play golf like that. We don't actually train for golf in the way we're going to play it. You know, when you've played other sports I'm sure you guys have played other sports football, rugby or whatever and when you did that you went to football training or rugby training. You didn't go and practice, you went to train and you were training for a game. But we don't do that with golf. Largely or very few people do not enough people do so.
Speaker 2:I mean, one of the things that I've always got players to do, especially if they're going to play in a tournament or whether it's a monthly medal or a tour event, is to, once you've warmed up, before you go out to play on the golf course, you play nine holes on the range. So if the first holes are driving a wedge or whatever, you take your driver out you ask yourself the question okay, what's the shot here? Is it possible I can hit this fairway? Yep, absolutely. What's a really good version of this shot look like? And then we tend to create what we see.
Speaker 2:So once you've got a very clear intention for the shot, you just kind of trust your brain and body to take over and do what they can do. You might surprise yourself. And then you do that for nine holes. You know, you visualize the shot every single time and one of the main benefits of that is for two main benefits are A you don't get stuck in the kind of technical how's my backswing looking or how's my left knee doing it at the top of the backswing. But also, by the time you get the first tee, you're in playing mode. So you've actually you've moved one environment an awful lot closer to the one you're going to be faced with on the golf course, which is playing shots, creating a whole lot of different shots, which is what we have to do. So that would be, for everyone listening, not a bad thing to try next time you go out to play.
Speaker 1:No, myself included yeah.
Speaker 2:You can all benefit from it.
Speaker 1:He's always included. Honestly, gary, you don't know the background to this individual. Honestly he's. I don't want to comment any further from honest Jealousy. Jealousy that way in many forms.
Speaker 2:Leave it to imaginations.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you just interest jealous eyes. So yeah, I wanted to ask how quickly does what you two do evolve? Because in your world of golf, it's like an ever changing research model, isn't it? So how quickly did it as your research either become old or the reason the need for you to look at new methods and new systems with the modern world, I think.
Speaker 3:I think what tends to happen is that you do a lot of research and you look at a lot, of, a lot of different approaches and different ideas and concepts, but then you tend to keep coming back to some some basic fundamentals. You know that, the fundamentals of how we play this game, that the ball and the club and the club's line into certain angle and we're swinging through space and our body moves in certain ways I think those fundamentals have stayed the same for as long as we've been, you know, since the Shepherds were sort of roaming around in Scotland playing the game. And I think from a from a brain perspective, we are, we do understand an awful lot more about how the brain works now. But then it comes back to some simple keys that when you, you know, when you play your best golf, you're actually out there and the mind's pretty quiet and it's actually you know it. When it's done well, people sort of say oh, golf, 90% mental, and that couldn't be further from the truth. Really, when it's done well, it becomes more physical than mental, in the sense that you reduce the amount of noise in your head, you reduce the amounts of thinking that you do and it comes down to, as Gary said, a few simple questions that you ask and you're tuning in a little bit more to how you know the golf swing feels, how you have to feel for yourself on it as an individual on certain shots. So you know it really is coming, keep coming back to this. That this, this world that we inhabit now, is that we're drowning in so much information and you know, maybe we're perpetuating.
Speaker 3:I have a podcast, you guys have a podcast and we're talking a lot about the game, but I think, fundamentally, you know, I was talking to somebody earlier on about developing skills and he was saying that you know, it's only relatively recently that we've, we've, we've been in this situation where, for the most of the time that humans evolved using tools and machinery and things like that, if you wanted to get good at something, you actually served an apprenticeship and with that apprenticeship you would study with somebody who was a master at that and you would only get information from that person and you would stay on track, developing your skills. You know you wouldn't, you know you wouldn't have had a blacksmith a hundred years ago. Thinking right, I've learned all I can from this blacksmith. Now it doesn't seem to be working. Well, I'll go to the blacksmith down the road, see if his way of putting shoes on a horse is better than the other one, and then you know, looking at magazines about how you put shoes on a horse.
Speaker 3:I know that's a, that's probably a crass example, but it's only relatively recently that we've ended up with so many different models of how to try and do things, in this case, golf, and you know it, me it keeps coming back to you know, maybe there will be a return to it whereby it's this so important that you find a coach that you can trust and they get to understand you and you understand them, and it's so much. It's about understanding your tendencies your tendencies in terms of your golf swing and then your tendencies in terms of how you think. And when you can understand your tendencies, you can stay in balance. You can stay in balance with your thinking process and you can stay in balance with your golf swing, and I think that's such an important thing. Most people are out of balance because they're constantly trying lots of different things.
Speaker 1:Obviously, it's not every day we have experts such as yourself on golf, and I really enjoy because I've played a lot of football, rugby and team sports. But I think that's one of the biggest shocks when people I spoke to when they play golf is they don't realise or they didn't realise how sort of mental it is. But there's no hiding. You know your team can play well in football and you can win, but you could have had an awful game but it's soon forgotten about because the team won or etc. Whereas in golf obviously it's the only sizzle on. Us. Are there which players in your Opinion stick out the most in terms of mental Strength? And I know Brooks is probably one that comes to everyone's mind but from your point of view, that are a couple that we don't really see that you guys so well actually he is when you look at the statue. He is very good.
Speaker 2:It's a good question person who'd be really relevant and be Victor Hovland. I mean, he's just won the last two weeks on the PJ tour and he's won the FedEx Championships and, by his own admission, his short game was terrible and he perhaps wasn't as mentally strong as he is, but it's taking great mental strength and fortune to actually, and a lot of courage to go away and really work on his short game. He understood it wasn't good enough, but I think while he was doing that he's also developing his mental skills and his resilience as well. So he'd be one who is very, I guess, current. But you know, anyone who keeps winning golf tournaments has got to be pretty mentally strong. That doesn't happen by accident, yeah, but I think we're all too eager to latch on to oh, he's changed his swing or he's got a new putter or she's got a new driver and that's that. Spots made all the difference. It's really a new club that makes a difference.
Speaker 3:It's interesting on Hovlander to read a quote. I heard a quote where he talked about being at peace with the game In the sense that he realized that in the past you know you're gonna hit shots offline, you're gonna knock balls out of bones and knock it in the walkings like that, and that point for us all. We do. We do have a choice. We do have a choice about how we react. You know, we can react by beating the crap out of ourselves or we can react by actually realizing that that is the game, that the game is inherently Unpredictable, chaotic, and even the best players in the world is it sideways a lot of the time? Yeah, you know, and I think you know people say about mental toughness, what it? What is? What is mental toughness?
Speaker 3:My ultimate definition of it would be a willingness to accept the Unpredictability of outcomes. You know, because no amount of, no amount of technique, no amount of swing theory, no amount of practice will ever Protect anybody from hitting poor shots. No, nobody's cracked the code. You know, hogan may got close more, norman got close to support, but even those guys you know will have hit poor shots. So it's it's not the bad shots that's the problem, it's the relationship that we have to those, those poor shots. That's the key to this game, and if you can change, if you can change your relationship To the poor shots, the paradox is then that you actually probably reduce the amount of poor shots, because you don't got that knock-on effect when you've hit a poor one. I've seen it as a, as a you know, a barometer of your value, or a measure of your value as a human being, which we've all fallen into, that trap.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's great point. Sorry, just I have. I have one more quick question to ask you both. I couldn't ask this. To be fair, she's come to my mind and I'm sure feel this is gonna roll their eyes. I'm gonna talk about Rory. He's Mike.
Speaker 1:I was in last week to Zach Gold. He's probably one of my favorite athletes but definitely my favorite golfer. He. I read the quotes from where I told that this luck to Zach last week where he said that his killer, instinct attitude, that sort of, took him to his four major wins and was was. It was very hard to maintain, took a lot of energy from to maintain and I know he's. You can't say he's played poor golf since his last Major win because he's probably played at points better golf and a lot of people have boiled down the reason he has a one since that to his mentality. I was wondering whether you guys would agree with that. Or is there more play, you know, into the standard competition, because I'm the first to sort of berate him and say he needs to sort of come with a better mentality, but it's easy for me to say that is now. I'm just wondering whether you guys agree that that with people's opinion a lot.
Speaker 3:I think there's a there's an element to that. But you've also got to realize that there's an incredible amount of variability. Just that goes into winning a golf tournament Because you've got a bunch of other guys who were very, very good going out in the final round. You know how many people I might get the numbers slightly wrong here, but how many people have ever gone out in the major tournament? I think he was leading by two shots at Centandres wasn't in the final round, shot three under par 68, something like that, and he still, he still, he still doesn't win.
Speaker 3:Now that that wins you a major probably 95 times out of 100. So you know, you look at you, look at Greg Norman's career, the, you know, larry, my shipping in, going back in in time and some crazy things that can happen. So you know, yes, we can, we can look at the mentality and say, is there anything he can do to maybe improve that? I'm sure he's doing everything he can, working with Bob Rattler and all that. But I think we've also got to understand that the outcomes are so incredibly Unpredictable and variable that we just can't we just can't allocate a simple cause and effect to why somebody hasn't won something in terms of their own mentality.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a great point, I'm sure I think when Rory was was On his way up to becoming number one, all his time and efforts were dedicated to that. Yeah, so he, let's say, had a hundred percent that time available. That was all that was all he did. But then, once he got there, then he's got a lot more media attention. He's got to do a lot more media work. He's got sponsors days to do, he's got this to do, he's got that to do.
Speaker 2:So up that a hundred percent time was probably now down to about 60 or 70 Plus as he's grown as a person. He's now married, he's got a kid. You know, perhaps golf isn't, it's clearly very important to him, but he knows that if he Chutes 69 and finishes third, and you know, his wife, kid and dog are still gonna love him. Yeah, we all, we all want Rory to win, probably as much, if not more, as he does. But it's, you know, he's a golfer, that's it. It's not, he's a professional golfer, but once he's away from the golf course and away from the race, he's he's a father and a husband.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I Think now's a good time, josh, for the goings to quiz.
Speaker 3:These are not gonna be difficult questions. Are they before?
Speaker 2:Difficult, difficult for us, carl yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah yeah, it's a low bar, unfortunately.
Speaker 1:There's one thing there's one thing you to do need to know is that Josh has a very high success rate of beating the guests. He doesn't know the questions. In fact, I do often try to trick him. So you got a good mother with your top game. Okay, Okay and it's just.
Speaker 3:Does he know the answers before we start?
Speaker 1:No, if anything, Carl, I'm trying to make him lose and that's against me. Carl so pleading me, he's definitely not helping me and it's just first to answer. Okay, and if you've answered incorrectly, you don't get to come in again unless everybody's answered incorrectly. Is it just to clarify is it me versus Carl versus Gary, or is it me versus Carl and Gary? No, it's you V Carl, v Got it. I'm not gonna be that slight.
Speaker 3:Go on. This sounds way too strict before we.
Speaker 1:Okay, you ready. Question one how many British golfers have won the Masters? Two, no one, no Three, no, so you can all go again. I'm gonna do a fall, it's four. Don't get a point for being closest. No, josh gets the point for being perfect. So there you were, sandy Lyle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I found a wisdom.
Speaker 1:I'll do wisdom and Will it, will it, will it, yeah, god, one little Josh. It's a good start, perfect start. Who came third at the Tour Championship?
Speaker 2:Rory.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Windham.
Speaker 1:Wyndham Clark. Yes, carl, correct, I Can see in your face, carl, you're really like in gaze.
Speaker 3:I'm just embarrassed at that first answer when I said one bridge the winner of the yeah, I'm gonna pull myself together there. I'm not gonna edit that bit yeah. Come to the pressure there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was a quick fire minute. Yeah, okay, as of today, so Monday, the 28th of August, who was the latest to be announced as the European Ryder Cup qualifier? Terrell Hatton, josh, correct. I only saw that about seven minutes ago. No, not seven minutes before we came on, sorry.
Speaker 3:Yeah, is there any questions from the sort of late 70s, early 80s? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Carl, they're actually Not all day I've not written a newspaper or anything.
Speaker 1:You've got to be patient. It actually is great. We've got a standard chance there. Okay, question four what is the name of the clothing brand sponsoring the Tour Championship winner?
Speaker 2:I'm not like to answer, am I?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can't see it. Yeah, linda, but yeah. So Gary won Josh to Carl one, so it's close. Going into the last question, kyle, this one's for you and Gary, right, who were the golfers that battled it out in what is now called the duel in the sun?
Speaker 3:What's the?
Speaker 1:Nicholas.
Speaker 3:I honestly don't know who won that one. I got there first.
Speaker 1:We'll have to do a bit. We'll have to do an audio playback.
Speaker 3:You need VAR on that one.
Speaker 1:I'll tell you what will. Here's the decider who won it Tom Watson. Yeah, I'm what. Someone yeah.
Speaker 2:I was first first. Last time, though, I was definitely quicker off the mark.
Speaker 3:The question there is he finished? Third, if Gary can get that one.
Speaker 2:Oh good.
Speaker 1:I think I know, and although no, no is an American. Begin. Beginning with a right is turning begins with a. When you tell me his name, it'll be familiar, because when I was researching this it was he. It didn't end up quite a few shots behind the two of them by the end, didn't it?
Speaker 3:It was 10 shots, I think, difference.
Speaker 1:Do you know? I watched the documentary about this a long ago actually as well.
Speaker 3:It was a great one, and I'm thinking now. I'm not sure of the answer. Now, talk yourself out of it. I think it was Hubert Green. Okay, would you say Gary, as am I right on that.
Speaker 2:That did cross my mind, but I thought no, that's too obvious, it couldn't have been him, but I think it might be.
Speaker 1:I watched that documentary and it was incorrect. Like they, I think, were they. Was it something silly? Like they were the only two and the par come the end of the day or something, or you know, there's only a certain amount of maybe five people in the par, but they were well in the par, they would pass it to anything.
Speaker 3:I think the last, I think Watson shot 65, 65 and Nicholas shot 65, 66, something like that in the final two rounds.
Speaker 1:I couldn't believe. I also had never sat down to watch it properly, but I couldn't believe where he stuck his tee shot on 18 to then, where he put it on the green. Then making the first Under the bush was incredible.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I thought you just knew. You just knew he was going to hold that putt as well. When he'd got that 50 footer on the final green, you just knew it was going to go in.
Speaker 1:His putting, his Hubert Green was third. Hubert Green, he was third.
Speaker 3:That's got to give me some extra points there. A bonus point, Right.
Speaker 2:OK, how much did Tom? What's?
Speaker 1:I was just about to ask that, gary. That's a great question, and the figure's going to shock you 257,000.
Speaker 3:Oh my God, nowhere near I would say it was something like 10 grand, 10 grand exactly.
Speaker 1:Was it Wow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah that for making for missing the cut now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Nick Faldo, he, whatever he placed, he walked away with 425 pounds.
Speaker 2:The week probably cost him about 1500.
Speaker 1:Yeah, ok. Well, that was really heated and we'll have to go back to the photo finish, but I do want to use my time now, if I can. I'm really hoping to get both your opinions on the weekly debate that we have.
Speaker 2:OK.
Speaker 1:So we'll go to that. This week's debate is based on the rider cup. Obviously, everyone's waiting to see the selections, and now me and Josh have formed a team. We chosen a team and our American team is exactly the same. So we've got one team there and our European team is only one difference between them. So I'm going to read out the team.
Speaker 2:OK.
Speaker 1:So we'll figure it up in America, and then I want both your opinion on whether you change it or whether you like the sound of it, or so on and so on. Ok, so our European team is as follows there's only one difference between the two of us. So it goes Macoroy, ram, hovland, hatten, fleetwood, mcintyre, fitzpatrick Strakka and then Shane Lowry, justin Rose Moronk, and I've put Hoigard in, and Josh would have put Noren in. So would you chop and change anyone in the European team compared to ours?
Speaker 2:I'd probably go with Hoigard as the last man, I think, on form, and I've seen him play and he's probably impressive. So is Alex Noren, obviously, and he's had another very, very steady season on the PGA tour. He's been there before. But, yeah, nothing against Alex Noren, who's a good lad and I like him a lot. I think Hoigard, I think his time is, I think it could be the making of him, given the chance.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, he can imagine. He's young, he's hungry, he's probably chomping at the bit, isn't he?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think he'd be a great addition.
Speaker 3:And he seems to enjoy those white heat moments as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he does, he does.
Speaker 1:He's hitting some form, isn't he? He's competing this weekend, wasn't he? Yeah, yeah, he's up there again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, both the brothers are very impressive. Yeah, if you watched him play, you wouldn't know who he was, who.
Speaker 1:That's what I was about to say. I was literally took the words out of my mouth. I don't know which one's which. Really.
Speaker 2:I did a gop de. It was last summer for one of their sponsors or with one of their sponsors, omega, and they both did the kind of long track man, long drive thing and it was like, was that? Did? I just watch a repeat of the first one? Because they are spookily alike. They're incredibly similar, looks wise, and the strings are slightly different. But you know, if you're more than 10 yards away you probably wouldn't know the difference.
Speaker 1:Is there anyone in the European team that you would have liked to have seen there, given the way golf has been over the last two years? Or are you sad not to be a part of it all?
Speaker 3:I'm going to throw a bit of my strings within here, Harrington. I was going to. You took the words out of my mouth, Gary.
Speaker 1:I was watching the senior open, the commentators were saying, obviously, regardless of what it was, what was, the playoff was going on. And I was wondering regardless of whether he wins this or not, you'd like to think that he's possibly in the mix now, wouldn't you, I think? When I heard that comment, I thought it was such a valid comment to make. But I was also wondering how many people would have just disregarded that straight away just because it was a senior open. But he is actually playing some really, really, really good golf. He's been there before and he's a major winner. He's not going to succumb to the pressure. He's been there before. So I think it's a very valid, valid.
Speaker 1:Three major winners yeah.
Speaker 3:It would have just been a wonderful story as well, wouldn't it? I think just somebody playing in the Ryder Cup at that age would have been a brilliant chaperone for one of the younger guys as well.
Speaker 2:Yes, I understand, using wisely. He doesn't have to play five times. He'd want to, I'm sure, but if you played him three times, you're probably going to get a couple of points out of him.
Speaker 1:If I read you the American team, josh, did you know that mine and your American team were exactly the same? No, I didn't know that. So we have gone for Scotty Sheffler, wyndham Clark, brian Harmon, patrick Cantley, max Holmer, xander Shuffley, jodan Spieth. We've put Brooks Kepker in. We've gone for Justin Thomas, we've put Ricky Fowler in, cameron Young and Colin Morrigkauer.
Speaker 2:Hmm, how to argue with that.
Speaker 1:Now the thinking between we've had this on the podcast previously, but the thinking that me and Josh are on the same wavelength is other than Brooks I wouldn't want or put any of the live players in, solely from my perspective, for team morale, I wouldn't want to risk introducing, even if they were playing spectacular golf, just the way it's been lately, just wouldn't want to risk the change in the locker room. I know they say that there's no disagreements between them, but why risk it? You've got a stacked PGA-led team, other than Brooks. I think Brooks goes in because it's major performances and you just know that Brooks is not going to be phased by the.
Speaker 2:I don't think he's going to give a shit, whether his teammates like you or not either.
Speaker 1:No, but what do you think of the American selection then?
Speaker 2:Who were you thinking about when you I?
Speaker 1:think it was. It was either the one.
Speaker 2:Justin Thomas. Was that was he, or was he a straight in?
Speaker 1:For me personally, I was always saying Justin Thomas. At one point you were saying not, weren't you Josh? But I think JT is the type of player with a bit of fire underneath him. He comes a light, and him and Spieth is just a pairing that you know. The European team doesn't matter who you are. If you've got Spieth and Thomas in front of you, you're going to think, oh God, we've got to work it out today and that's enough of a mental advantage for the Americans to take.
Speaker 2:It's not like he's lost his game completely, is it? No, you know, start to show some signs. I mean, how many times has Paul to be in picked when he's not been in form? Exactly, and I think he'd be a similar kind of character. I think he'd be a great guy to have around the team room as well, from what I can gather about his personality. Yeah, I'm going to have to agree with you. Yeah, we'll disagree with that Unanimous.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if you look at the list of emissions on the American side, though, it's unbelievable. That's a strong side. You can make a strong side with the people list of people who don't make it in terms of I know Bryson's playing well, he is on live but you've got Bryson. Patrick, mr Captain America, phil Tony Fienow you know there's a few, but what do you guys think about the emissions on the European side in terms of Stenson Poulter I'm missing someone, I'm sure Westwood Would you guys include them or would you be inclined to shut the door on that sort of thing?
Speaker 2:I think it's time to move on. I think this is a bit of a change in the guard.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, when these guys were coming through, they pushed some of the older guys out the way and that's just the way it was. That's just the way it is. It's the way it's always going to be. There's going to be. You can't have the same players, but for decades. I mean there'll be one or two that are going to hang around for a while. But I think, yeah, I just think they're a bit too far removed from the European tour.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, so we've made some good choices in the Reddicap teams, have we?
Speaker 2:I think so. I think all we can hope for now is a close match, but not too close. Yeah, wow, you've got to go with Europe.
Speaker 1:I think the Europe away and I think it's been a lot of talk about a trouncing and a repeat of last time. But slowly, but slowly but surely, I think Europe have appeared with a better golfers, especially now that Scotty's not putting as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we've got three of the top four in the world currently, after yesterday.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know Ram Hovland, rory, three of the top four, I don't think. And you know Tommy Fleetwood's had to. They're really strong performers and I have been on a world stage for the last few years and you know our guys. I think one of the great things about the European team is we've always had winners. Yeah, you know, there's a big difference between playing well, having a good year, and actually winning tournaments. So, our guys, I think while most of the bigger names play in the States, the guys here made it through our winners and they're strong players. Don't underestimate what they can do. I think we've got. I don't think it's going to be one sided by any stretch of the imagination, but I do think. I think we'll just edge it. Looking forward to it, yeah, same.
Speaker 1:Arch of Field, looking well at the minute.
Speaker 2:It's fantastic. Yeah, excuse me, it really is. We've got a great guy in charge of the golf courses. Steve Cramby does a fantastic job and I don't think I've been there 12 years now. I don't think I've seen the courses look better and they've been like that all season. They've been fantastic. They're great fun to play as well. It's a nice place to go to work.
Speaker 1:I have to say that so what's actually going on with you at the minute, then? So where can we point our listeners to?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, we've obviously, Carl and I. It's actually just past the fifth anniversary of the release of our first book, Lost Art of Putting. We released that 2018, 2020 or late 19. We released the Lost Art of Playing Golf and then, a couple of years after that, the Lost Art of Short Game. We've actually just released another. Well, the first to I guess it's like a video, an online companion to the Lost Art of Putting. We've created an online program which is a load of videos that perhaps go into a little bit more depth on some of the concepts within the Lost Art of Putting. So if you go to either themindfactorcom or performanceprinciplescouk, you can buy it, you can download it there, you can buy it there and for any of your listeners out there who are interested, we are offering you, or are happy to offer you, a discount code of 20%, which is if you go to the website. So there's a little bit that says click on coupon and if you click on that and fill in TL20, you get a 20% discount.
Speaker 1:Oh, thank you so much. Yeah, that's awesome. Thank you, my pleasure, josh. Anything before we sign off, I was going to say thanks for your mention coming on, cardi. I was just, I think, what Tristie just said, and for me personally, like I said just from before, I love the psychological part of golf To be able to fire questions at you that 99.9% of the population can't answer and you can. It is great, I really enjoyed it and it's always fun picking people's brains as to what goes on.
Speaker 2:I've enjoyed the chat. It's been really good, thank you. I think some of these questions you ask, I think a lot of people want to ask but are scared to for some reason. I think it's partly that the culture we want to fix our golf swings before we fix anything else, but every movement we make is organised in our brain before it gets to our hands, arms, legs, hips, shoulders, whatever. So that's not a bad place to start.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we kind of think that that's our selling point. As you've got two normal, completely normal, go out. I would say I'm normal, josh is not quite, but you've got two normal but he's working towards it yeah.
Speaker 1:To get to ask these questions of people like yourself, carl. We've had some amazing guests in the past and we've got some amazing guests coming on, so I think for a lot of people they just like to hear just the general chit chat that would happen between an amateur golf. That's good fun, good fun. Keep up the good work, boys. Thank you, gary, and hopefully see you again. Yes, absolutely Take care, take care, bye, bye, gary. Thanks for your time, carl, honestly, every single time it's been brilliant, thank you.
Speaker 3:Thank you, fellas.
