Start from Scratch
If there’s one thing that always stirs up a debate for our family… it’s golf. Some of us provide sensible, measured and articulate points. Others, chat complete s**t from start to finish. You can decide who’s who for yourselves!
Start from Scratch
S2 E12: Joe Miller talks us through Long Drive in Josh’s Dream Episode
We welcome two-time World Long Drive Champion, Joe Miller, who is chomping at the bit to get back out there! Not only full of insight into his world, but also full of craic and laughs. Hang on to every word as Joe unravels his life off the course, an intriguing training regimen with Dr Golf, and future competition plans. It’s not every day you get to hear about record-breaking drives and the role of technology in golf from a world champion himself.
In a spin-off from our usual banter, we bring to the fore a heated debate that’s causing quite a stir in the golfing world. The USGA and RNA have proposed a rule that mandates highly skilled golfers to use a distinct golf ball from 2026. Put on your thinking caps as we discuss the potential ripple effects this could have on golf courses, gear manufacturers, and players. We even ponder on the possibility of reducing the size of the driver club head as a more appealing alternative. Get ready for a thought-provoking discussion on such proposed changes and their potential repercussions on the sport.
As we veer towards the end of our episode, we delve deeper into Joe Miller’s journey and his insights into the world of Long Drive Competitions. From his collaborations with Zach to his perspectives on golf technology, get ready for an exclusive insight into the highs and lows of a champion’s journey. Amidst the serious talk and we also find time to laugh about Josh’s attempts to hit the longest ball. Tune in to our episode for all these and much more.
You hit one down the right hand side of the grid, didn't you? Is that the one I'm thinking about? And then it sort of kicked, it took about, it took a kick left, didn't it? Or something like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the wind Again. You do know you're a long drive.
Speaker 1:I love it. Yes, I hate you.
Speaker 2:I talk about this with everyone since 2010.
Speaker 1:Hi and welcome to episode 12 of Start From Scratch. Once again, it is just me and Josh. It's not because nobody likes us and we can't find company. It's mostly because we don't want anyone else. We don't want anyone else. We're tired of it. We're definitely tired of our older brother, liam. He's at the sack. You might hear from him again, but he'll be on our terms for sure. We've recorded two episodes this week, so you will have heard us talk about High Lake, and actually High Lake is then undusted, even though we're going tomorrow, because, josh, you forfeited the match. No, I haven't.
Speaker 1:Never dreamed of that. How do you think you forfeit the match? What do you need me to do for you tomorrow? Beat yourself, no, yeah. How are you going to beat me without golf clubs? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I forgot my golf club at home. Yeah, basically, I was getting in my car, which was yesterday, on the way home, tuesday morning, and my golf club, my golf shoes stank out the car Hang on Home is Anglesey and you live in Liverpool.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, sorry, yeah. And then they stank. So I went to the boot and I was like, fuck, these stink, I need to take these out. I was like, do you know what? I may as well just leave them here. Don't need the golf shoes pretty much over, I don't need them now. So I took them and my golf clubs out and then it was showering yesterday morning and then the penny dropped and I absolutely almost capped them in the shower.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm like, okay, that's because you're scared of taking me on in the match? Absolutely not, absolutely not. I beat you with your club and they left on it. I'm not even joking, I'm really, I'm really happy to. Is you in a nutshell? When I got that text, I was like there's nothing that personifies this kid more than this right now. And I just want to touch on if your golf season is more or less over.
Speaker 1:You didn't make it into the Champions of Champions event. Well, no, I've still got one event left that I'm going to click up on. I was going to play for the E, but then I sacked two off. So I've got one more event. But what I was going to say is the more you are giving me shit now, which is fine, but it just makes you look even worse when I beat you. I'm not going to lose. Yes, you are. Yes, you are, and it's not even going to be close either.
Speaker 1:How many holes is it again? Six, it's a six hole match play and all difference to get as much content in that as possible. So you're going to win seven up my favorite drink, mate. I like my talking on the course. So until then, mate, I suggest you pipe down. Okay, that's fair enough. Yeah, we'll know tomorrow evening. We're going to know this time tomorrow. Yes, we are. Well, it might be on social. No, until when this comes out, because this is coming out. So this episode won't come out until not next Friday, friday after.
Speaker 1:So, yes, okay, before I tell people about who's coming on tonight, I just want to ask has Sam Feegan had the balls to respond to anything I've said about him? No, I have texted him, but he did not get back to me in time for this episode to go live. Has he read it? Oh, recording, no, he hasn't read it. I think he works in a place that's quite strict on films he has to put him in a locker and that. So I will give him the benefit of the doubt Because, let's be honest, I've got more respect for him than you at this point because he did message you. He needs to be stricter with what comes out of his mouth because he has entered into a world that he wants no part of. Listen, I think everyone's a part of your world. I really do. I don't think anyone's scared of what you've got to offer on the golf course.
Speaker 1:And I would say that's not my point, that's not my point, it is Where's your?
Speaker 1:point, then I'm telling Sam Feegan that if he's going to put himself out there, let's back it, I don't mind. So I'm saying now I'll have the match when he wants. It doesn't matter what the course is, it doesn't matter when it is really, as long as it works. All I'm saying is he's saying this behind closed doors. He says he's had the beer at the clubhouse and he'll say it through text. By the way, two fat ones neither me or Eddie are on. I'm not going to revisit it. I'll wait for that text from Sam Feegan now and when he is the episode he best come back to me. That's all I'm saying. That's the only thing I'm saying. I'm just saying I'm going to give him, I'm going to give you one thing If it was anyone else making these accusations that Sam's making, I would be more concerned for you than I am for him, because he has got a track record of choking really badly as well when it comes to match play. So that's the only thing he got going for for you and the only thing against him. So it's going to be a good one to watch. No doubt he's a choke artist, mate. He is mate. But what can you do? People are people at the end of the day, so we crack on, and now's a good time for us to talk about who we've got.
Speaker 1:Coming on, Josh, Out of nowhere. Really, this is your dream episode. This is a two-time World Long Drive champion, Joe Miller, A fellow bomber? Yes, I don't think he's going to see the same that, the same way. But there you go. I think you don't think he's a bomber. I think he is. Yeah, Joe Miller, Joe Miller, maybe I'm looking forward to it. So I remember when I told you you were telling me all sorts of things about him and I was thinking that's gone a little bit OTT. You probably know more about him than you should do. Really, We'll see what he says about that, mate.
Speaker 1:Leave him to judge, that's fed enough. Shall we get him on, yeah you got it, you got me boys.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we've got you.
Speaker 1:How are?
Speaker 2:you doing guys, are you OK?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you, yeah, very good Thanks, very good, joe. If we start with then what's life like for you right now? You're still practicing and still trying to get back into it, trying to get back to the swing of things, because obviously we met Zach last week and Zach was saying that you two are working together. So it would be nice for you to start really on what life is like for you right now and maybe comment on what you're doing with Zach as well.
Speaker 2:Joe, what it's been. I've got to say hasn't much changed from when I was in full-time competition mode, but I'm going back there 2019, obviously before the World got shut down. Life at the moment is, I suppose, a few things have changed. I've had a son at the end of 2019, so a lot of it is looking after him, especially at the moment half-term. It will come to the end of half-term. Second is that this great big ape dog that has got sitting next to me right now is looking after him, but then nothing else changes.
Speaker 2:I still hit balls every other day, every two days, sorry, every other day or every other day, and I'm still training. I always have, but that's more of a lifestyle thing. That's not necessarily just for the goal. So I still do a lot of weightlifting, a lot of weight training, and, yeah, the things are good at the moment. I don't know if I would say I'm looking for a new direction, but I want it to branch off of a little bit. I want to do a few different things.
Speaker 2:I am in the middle of probably booking a flight to Germany, which is where the European Championships are, in a couple of weeks' time, I think. Three weeks' time. Oh, wow, I think that's going to be the first long drive event since 2019. So that's the main focus now. But I've been listening.
Speaker 2:I've been focusing on making a return for well, I went away from it. It's obviously COVID and lockdowns and things like that. They obviously shut a lot of doors, but I always continue to practice. So this is maybe I don't know. I'll just say it's the next competition or the next event I'm going to do, which obviously is a bit of a comeback for four years out of the sport. It's going to feel strange, but practicing well, hitting well, swings, getting to a point now where it's back in a nice comfortable speed, which I've always prided myself on. I've always been a guy that could obviously swing quite fast and I've always been the top end of the competition. But yeah, it's getting back to that point now where I'm feeling comfortable and I'm actually looking forward to getting back. It's only going to be one competition this year, but maybe this would just be the start and then onto 2024. Yeah, and then do a few more there.
Speaker 1:So is this how the collaboration with ZAC came about? Then your idea to sort of go back into, like you said, a comeback sort of some sort?
Speaker 2:Yeah, sort of. I mean I suppose it's not the comeback with ZAC. I still do a lot of corporate events and whatever it would be golf shows, golf exhibitions. I met ZAC back in I think it was February this year. We were both doing the bunkered live events that they do. There was one in where was it? In the NEC in the Birmingham, and I got to meet ZAC there.
Speaker 2:I never met him before but he is doing something that I'm always been interested in, obviously the training side of it. But I've never tried to sell the training side, I've never tried to do it as a sort of profession, although obviously you get off quite a bit doing what I do. And he just approached me and he said you know, we both sort of think along the same lines. I was listening to some of his talks and he obviously listened to my talk, which is a bit brief for them, his one. At the time I was up there hitting balls and not so much doing the talking part and sort of fast forward a few months and we had a couple of chats.
Speaker 2:And this is obviously more his remit than it is mine in terms of the Instagram side and that here's a package and do you want to get involved and come and see what we're doing? So I'm sort of learning from him a little bit and he's obviously using me and seeing how I sort of think about long driving, thinking about the training side of things and just obviously it's an obvious combination there and, who knows, it could lead to other things. So it's a little interesting project for both of us. It's not something we're really putting a massive amount of focus on, but we are. This is a nice little package, guys. If you want to get involved, come and have a look and see for yourselves. Really Obviously, if you're interested in trying to find a bit more distance, this is for you sort of thing.
Speaker 1:I won't ask the question. We were actually talking before we came on about asking you what you sort of were going to branch out into after golf, but we'll come back down to that. My question for you is how are you feeling about the European champs? I don't mean within just swinging or anything like that, but how are you feeling a bit nervous going back into it after four years out?
Speaker 2:At the moment. No, I'm actually quite calm. I've never been really nervous, kind of competitive really, so I think it's quite calm. I think obviously the adrenaline does start pumping as soon as you get a bit closer to the event. At the moment it's still I don't think about it, I'm still just concentrating on making a good move in terms of my swing and practice inside of it. But, no, I think quite comfortable, quite confident. Rather, I don't think this is an expectation on me. Maybe to some point it's sort of 50-50.
Speaker 2:And he's been out. Anyone who knows the sport knows we know you've been out four years but you are still an ex world champion, two time world champion, and all the boys there want to smash you to pieces. And for me, obviously I've always got that expectation to hopefully go and win and at least put in a performance. But at the same time I'm not stupid. I've been doing it a long time. I know four years out there's a lot of sort of ring rust. Yeah, I don't know, just a sort of mixed feeling really, kind of quietly confident and just looking forward to seeing how it goes. Really.
Speaker 1:Do you still have? Sorry, tris, just one quick before I might be wrong in saying this now Do you still hold the record for the longest ball hit in a European final, or did you at one point? Or did you hit? I did at one point. I remember the commentary on the money, world, world championship, the introduction. You said that you hit something stupid like 450 in a final or something like that.
Speaker 2:Final. I don't want to think if that was actually a final. Now I think I'm going to go and say it's. You might have me on that. Actually, it might have been a semi final match. I mean, I held the European record for God knows how many years. It was back in 2005.
Speaker 1:I hit 474 yards, that's the one I was trying to say Because you were young, you were new to seeing them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 2005. That was my first official European championship at that point which obviously won. That catapulted me on to Vegas and experiencing that and seeing how the real side of it. Unfortunately, in Europe long drives always been very small, very niche. I mean it's niche at the best of times being a long drive even in America but it's even smaller in Europe. So Europe was just the sort of catapult to get you into the world championships and, yeah, I mean that was 2005. So I'd only been sort of really competing two years at that point. Yeah, 2003 was my first go and then, yeah, 2005 hit the European record 474 yards and then obviously I say it all sort of snowballed from there, but whatever, that was actually in the final because it was slightly different.
Speaker 1:It was slightly different.
Speaker 2:Back then there was basically there was a group of guys in the top. What was it? What would it have been back then? I think top eight or top six, and everyone basically just hit their balls in terms, you know, hit six balls and the longest was the winner. You know what I mean it wears. Now it's kind of a match play, knockout stage, so it's a little bit different. But whether that was a final or not, I can't quite remember. But yeah, 474 was a European record. Unless it still stands now, I can't think of it, does I'm not sure.
Speaker 1:Just a little fair way finer than was it yeah? It's a little uphill into win carry.
Speaker 2:Sorry Listen, obviously conditions allowed for it. I mean, had I been me now back then, no, the ball would have gone over 500 yards. Well, I wasn't longer then by any means. It was just the conditions allowed for that kind of number. So if you put Joe Miller from sort of 2010 to now really speed wise who knows what would have happened? I would have stayed in bounds, but it would have been a long later Sorry to say that I'm hijacking your question.
Speaker 1:No, it's going to be nice for me to get a word in there. I don't know if you've noticed, Joe, but Josh is like the ultimate fanboy.
Speaker 2:So love it, love it. I've always wanted to meet the one fan that I've got.
Speaker 1:So this is legitimately him. So, like a brief context, into him, if you don't know, is there's four of us brothers. I'm winning our friendship group. There's a lot of good golfers and Josh has been playing as long as us. He's been playing with us the majority of time. He's actually practiced, maybe more than others. He still plays off about 26, 28 handicap. He's awful at golf. He's just tried to do one thing from day dot Smash it. It's just ruined his golf game by doing it.
Speaker 1:It literally has I've been chasing that log and in the slot for years now Joe to no avail, unfortunately. Yeah, but like, yeah, like these are all five or four or whatever, I'm stuck on 20. But I hit it past him. That's all that matters, joe. That's all that matters to me.
Speaker 2:To be honest, it's all that matters In 10, 20, 30, 40 years time. Whatever it is, you're always going to be the one who smash it. They're going to remember their little puny handicaps. They're not going to care about their up and down, they're going to care about that time. You drove that par 4, par 5. That's all that's going to stay, honestly, until the very end. It is all about it. It really is all about it.
Speaker 1:That's what I always say. Anyway, this isn't about our 30th episode, I think. Well, you are the only person that's sided with me, or not, joe? So it's nice that I saw them. I saw them as well. Yeah, I think I was just about to say so. If this is 12, so 32 episodes, and we've had some top, top guests on, you are the only one that's told him. Now go after it and smash it, josh. Yeah, good guy, josh.
Speaker 2:Honestly, that ain't what I meant, you don't even worry about it.
Speaker 1:It's the best thing in the world.
Speaker 2:Don't get me wrong but listen even in the If you really want to look at it in a serious note, the modern game. Now it's proven, it isn't it? It really is. It's taken it to that next level. It's you know, they got to limit the equipment, they got to make the courses longer, limit the ball, this sort of thing, because pros realized it. I mean, it's not, the pros have always realized it. Just it's never been as abundant as it is now. So, and you know that, I suppose is it a problem. I don't know if you have to invent the game of golf now, I'm sure it'd be slightly different. But yeah, he's, distances becoming a sort of an all Old Consuming thing. Really.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I Was going back to the competition side. From maybe the last four years, I think, I personally seen a huge uptake in long drives. So one of our friends actually You'll more than you'll you'll more than likely know him for sure. Brie Roberts, who's? Yeah, well, he had so bright that it takes part in it. Who's the American now? Who's Calberg share? You've got the amateur now as well. I follow on Instagram. He's left handed is Andrew I.
Speaker 2:Ignore. You see, the guy that this one last week yeah, what we know, it might be this week or last week, I think, andrew. Yeah, I know, I think it is.
Speaker 1:Is aigna aigna, something like that.
Speaker 2:I can't remember, because I was looking at him and the thing I think is, I don't know how he's still an amateur, because I don't know, quite know how. This is our far out touch I am. I'm just trying to find it now. He was doing it when I was, obviously, you know in the mix of it going back 17, 18, 19, towards the end of it, he was competing then.
Speaker 2:So I don't know. I'm not quite sure how that's worked with Reese. I don't know, but I know you did just win an amateur Event in Tennessee.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was it. Yeah, he's got that he's got the tassini. That's our yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and he had that back then. That's our recognition. I'm not sure how that whole amateur bit is worked, but yeah, he's, you know he's he was. Yeah, I'm saying I was remember talking to him in the range now going back probably four or five years now. So unless he's maybe doing something on tour and he wants to keep an amateur status, I don't know, because obviously you can, you can to some degree term pro doing long drive if you start accepting money. So I'm not quite sure that's what.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I know, I know but with with all this now then. So I I never knew Anyone that done long drive and obviously we've got Brian here, local to us, but you got so many more names on social media now. Are you seeing it yourself in the game that the competition is getting stiffer, the balls getting longer, the speed of getting quicker, or do you think that actually go back maybe five, ten years ago, you still had the same amount of competition within your long drive competitions?
Speaker 2:So if there is an increase, it's a small one. I'll be honest. Like I said, it's always been so neat and the thing is we're being niche is Long drive. It's not like a pro tournament where you got, you know, 100 odd guys that start on the open and literally is 100 guys that they could win it right if they have a great week. You know, we've seen it recently with some of these golfers out in the states. The guys, the guys names they looted me now. But the club pro who went on to win, what did he win? Michael block that one, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And then he won that, and then the next thing you pay him a roaring order.
Speaker 2:You know there's what the point is. It's so many guys that can win a pro tournament. The thing is we long drive is it's probably always a handful, and it's a small handful at that, of guys that really can push it and win. You get your surprise, don't get me wrong. But because it's such a numbers game in terms of speed, you know it's a big one. Speed and numbers, just don't lie. For long drive, you know you can. You can go out and you can play you for yourself. You can play terrible golf but still score well, right. And then you go on to the next day and you do the same and then you gain picks up and then you go and have a couple of good rounds. Long drives, not like that, it's. It's. You know you got to be.
Speaker 2:That fast guy hits the ball, you know quite well, and it gets you through to the event. And because some of these events aren't done over, you know for days like talk about pro tournament. You just, you just find it's a small handful of guys, is there's some new ones coming through, which is which is the positive, but you still got them. Guys that are swinging it at 150 to 100, nowadays, sort of higher 150, that always, pretty much always gonna win it. The guy that one Just got on Sunday Was it Sunday or Monday? You know, I think you swing through the 153, my board, my who's swing speeds in that mid 150s approaching the 160 Mark. Karl Berkshire, again 160 mark approaching. You know, it's always.
Speaker 2:It's always been that handful of really fast guys that always win it and it's like, say, because it's so niche, you haven't got a hundred of them. You've maybe got at the moment 10 guys, if that. So it was the same back when I wanted, probably, like I said, if there is an increase now as a small one, back when I done it you had you had again five or six guys that you knew. But, like I said, yeah, but it gets the down, especially now at match play. Match play is a little bit different. Anyone can almost win it when it gets to the last couple of guys. But yeah, I don't know it's, it is, it's obviously the social media stars that we have now and you know it's also proclaimed a little bit. It's putting up ridiculous swing speed and then, when it comes down to competition, see it all drop off.
Speaker 2:But you know there's Listen, it's like I say, I think it's always gonna be niche until you get let's see what happens it will get into a point. Before you get to the point, let's see what happens. It will get into a point before, just before it shut down, that it was building up and it really was building up. Golf channel owned it. You know it was being shown live events every month, sky sports was on board and Then obviously, covid hit that all shut down and now it's starting to get to a point now it's starting to build up that they've sold the ownership and the new owners and now putting it back on TV. So we'll see where it goes. But you know, until it gets real serious money and the players start earning a hell of a lot More money than they did, it's always gonna be neat and you're always gonna have a small amount of guys that can win really well, I you raised an interesting point.
Speaker 1:That it's something I've always thought was and I'm not gonna. I don't want to like People down by saying this, but you do see a lot of, like you say, social media stars there. They're putting screenshots up of 163 club at speed and they should be something to high, 230s and ball speed. But then when it comes to you know you're watching the live events there they, you know High, you know low, 220s or something like that, or something like do you know how many? And you like, and and the speed speeds are same. Um, what is that? Is that just you think, with the adrenaline of the competition, they might go even quicker, you know, I mean, or?
Speaker 2:is it you should do? You should do in theory, and I think it's pretty much always found that I did to a point, but I suppose the main thing about it is at the moment, uh, although they've been around a while, this the technology at high speed in terms of flight scopes, track man quads. Uh, whether you're indoors, outdoors, whether you miss hit the club slightly at them, high speed, they can throw out freaky numbers. Now, ball speed generally doesn't lie. Okay, good, ball speed is generally ball speed. Indoors, I think it may come up a couple of miles an hour compared to if you was outdoors. Don't know why. You know their radar system, so maybe there's just something about it.
Speaker 2:Back, I know you know, for, like, I'll give you, for instance, certain club heads. Like I've got the crank hat on here. If I was to use a crank driver with a Callaway driver, swing for swing, if I could replicate the exact swing, you would get a different reading in terms of club head speed. Just something to the way that the light hits the face and the face is different shells, not the face, sorry, the crown and the club is a different, uh, different shape with a crank driver. I mean, I've done it seriously where I'll be sitting there hitting 150, 150, 150 with Callaway. He switched to a crank and it's like 1, 4, 1, 3, 8 on 41. Yeah, and it hasn't dropped off, you haven't changed, it's just the fact that it just struggles to read it.
Speaker 2:So what you see With some of these guys is they will, they will post up a misread in terms of club head speed. You'll see, most of the time you'll see the ball speed around the same or whatever is they hit, but again another. For instance, if I, but for any real reason, we'll get a uh, this is how funny they are If I know if the angle of attack reads more than less than three degrees up, so if it's, you know zero one or since that's going to minus, for whatever reason, I know it's a misread you'll get a five or six or seven miles an hour jumping club head speed, but no reason. It's very strange. Where you hit the ball on the face, can read different club heads please, because obviously you know if the ball's coming in, if the club that face is coming in, swear, but you hit the ball off the heel or the toe, you know the club face is doing this. It's opening the club face. You know the club face is doing this. It's opening, the closing is going up, going down.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it freaks the radar out. So that's why you sometimes see these freaky club head speeds. I could have posted up a couple of hundred and sixty five miles an hour ten years ago, right, but they're not. They're miss. Their miss reads.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:People love to post up on miss reading. It looks good on social. We love to say it looks good on social media, um, but yeah, there's there's there's mishits and there's there's real readings, um, and Generally you'll see the real readings in competition, but again, you some you see miss it, you'll miss. See miss reads as well. So it's just understanding the machine. I've lived with a flight scope for, I think, 13, 14 years now. I was one of the first ones to be sponsored by a flight by a what do you call?
Speaker 1:the radar. Yeah, a law's one.
Speaker 2:Sorry, I was one of the first guys to be ever be sponsored by them. Um, so I know the ins and outs a lot of these machines and I know sometimes they chuck up funny numbers for no reason, but you know. I'm gonna generally, you know the one, the one certainty is normally ball speed. Normally ball speed doesn't really lie, it's always very consistent because it has to be.
Speaker 1:There's a track man literally down the facility, about 10 minutes down walk down the road from me. You can bet any money. On friday I'm gonna be there for an hour trying to get a free chemistry to put on.
Speaker 2:So Well, I thought I'd try to think what it is that gives the biggest mystery. I think it's if you slightly Hit it on the bottom of the club. So, if you know, you become an in close to the bottom and it gives you a fake angle of attack reading. If you think that's not right, you know, because I know my I can tell you yeah, almost 20 parameters on a machine before the machine reads it right. So you obviously know. So if you see yourself with a kind of a initially reading on angle of attack, you would generally see that jumping ball speed. I just saw that jumping clubhead speed. So so when you take the photo of the screen, just take the photo of the clubhead speed, not the full speed, it's believable speed.
Speaker 2:That's what you'll see everyone else do as well. You'll see that one. Well, I'm swimming well today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and don't take a picture of the shot trace and either, because we know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we see that this. They sort of zoom in on the bottom right of it yeah, I bet speeds there but forget the rest of it. Forget the fact that your snack book low. Um, but yeah no, it's, it's the technology at the moment. It's not, and nor should it be right. You're swinging 150 miles an hour, 160 miles an hour, something.
Speaker 1:Guys, you know, a slight, a slight miss hit will give a slight miss read, just depends on how bigger, bigger the Miss hit and the miss read it gives you one of the things, um, that I would say grinds on me only slightly, not a big deal, even though I'm making it sound like a big deal and it comes out of a place of naivety, really.
Speaker 1:But when you're playing with someone who plays with someone, I'm going to say you've got um, someone who's never seen a long driver at the ball. And they play with someone and they come back and they say, god, you know he hits the ball a mile, he hits the ball a mile. But then they'll say something like um, you know he should do long drive him, or how how far the, the long drivers hit the ball. And it honestly, I don't know why, it Moys me because when, when, when you've seen someone hit the ball from long drive, it's, it's incompatible, isn't it? It's so I always want those people to be able to see the ball when it's been hit from the center of a club, from someone like you or bryor Borgmeier or anyone, just so you can see the difference between Ball flights, the hand time, the speed. It's like launching from a from a cannon.
Speaker 2:No, it's the equivalent of you know the club, the like, say the club pro maybe, or good amateur going out and having the round of his life. You know everything. You know you can't miss the cup at the moment. He finds every fairway, finds every. You know every shot that you think you might lose it for somehow hits a tree and ends up back in the fairway and he goes out and shoots you know five or six under and everyone looks and say why aren't you on tour? And you gotta realize you know what then then boys, you know tiger woods in his heyday was like a plus 10 handicap.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know then boys are turning pro at plus seven. You know they're doing it day in, day out, right, and obviously then they go into the real series competition. So you get found out, but it's exactly the same, it's the equivalent. You know, oh, he should do long drive and then you see the numbers. It's, it's the. It is a numbers game. The funny thing with long live is really numbers. Do not lie.
Speaker 2:Even though we've just talked about mysteries, you know generally, when you're not, you're on there 99% of the time you're getting a real reading and you see the difference between listen some guys now on the tour swinging it close to 130 miles an hour and they're hitting you know 400 yard constantly, right, because they're getting a run out, they're getting a roll, and you get the odd mention. Then you know I wonder how we do that long drive. What you also get is the guys that get on social media. They say that guy just hit it further than Joe Miller did. You know it's a world championship back in 20 or whatever year it was, I think.
Speaker 2:I think the world championship in 20 Was it 2011, when Ryan the wind. 2012, when Ryan went the one. It was into wind. I think he won with like 330 green and 40 odd yards right. And then you got some a little, got the little guy like a Matt's pick, patrick, tees up, knocked one 410 yards and everyone thinks you know them long drivers don't hit it anywhere compared to what these guys are. So you've had that over the years as well, and it is light and day, but it's like he says, the naïve until on some people they just they haven't seen it. Until they see it and they realize, yeah, well, bryson did.
Speaker 1:So Bryson bulked up and all that stuff and obviously I like said I've been a been a fan of long drive for a while, so but Bryson did well, but he, he was nowhere near the fastest, was he all the longest? He was just quite accurate, wasn't he? And quite and quite optimal all the time. But you know, you look at the numbers when If you say or bulk my way to middle one and him, you would be further than it. But then you look at someone who, bryson, who's maybe should we say Middle ish of the pack of long drive, how long he was compared to everyone else on tour when he was doing it. Do you mean he was much further than that? Also, that tells you how far, how much further you guys are than Than talk people, doesn't it? Because he, he was out in his own on tour.
Speaker 2:But yeah, yeah it does. It's like I say it's just the extreme. And to be fair to Bryson, you know he started getting it. I've seen slower guys win world championships than Bryson was that year. So there was there is always that Cinderella fairy tale story waiting to happen and Bryson almost pulled it off, right, I mean he comes second, uh, and only to Martin board, my back in back last year, 22.
Speaker 2:Well, championship, uh, you know he comes second and mine. I think he beat him by 20 yard in the end, which is quite a way really, uh, but I mean he got to see, got, he beat 99% of the field, yeah, I mean Again, look, it's not bastardized it too much, he, he got that far because he could just fill up the grid. Then eventually you get lucky with that and you get lucky again and the guy you go against Doesn't hit one in play. And that's basically what happened. Not to take anything away from him, what he done was incredible. And who knows, you know, on the path of life, if he, if he didn't go down the professional route of what he was doing and he for some odd reason, silly reason, decided to step into a long drive, I'm sure he could do even better. Um.
Speaker 1:I thought you know he was.
Speaker 2:He was incredible what he did.
Speaker 1:I thought it might be another. Wasn't it Um Carl Walter? Was it 2011?
Speaker 2:What do you want?
Speaker 1:All right, honestly, I go. Honestly, I can't. I started. I started whenever youtube came up, whenever that was, so I watched it heavily from about 20 2008 to Um 2017. So I got both of your world champion 2010 and 2016. You were, won't you? Um, so watch it. You know, james Laoski, like you said, ryan Winther, what was he called? The man bear or something. So I was what.
Speaker 2:I got.
Speaker 1:When it was rematch, isn't it? With the big balloons and all that stuff. So I was, I was well into it, but that was a mad one. So, like you say, with Cinderella story, he was a bit of an odd one, wasn't he? Where he was a bit of an upset.
Speaker 2:Oh god, I mean, I still have to seek this. Nice about that that that match now me versus him in the semi-final you know I was Give back story was obviously coming off. The 2010 win, 20, 2011. I never lost the round. I never even looked close to being beaten up until the way they structured there was slightly different. But you know, we got to the top for the top eight guys and that was the first year. I think it went to not the first year, but it was one of the early years because it went into match play and I went against Carl. It was downwind, heavily downwind. Uh, 2000, 2011 and me and him was in the semi-final and he's hit one. I think I still remember the numbers. I think he was 138 club speed. The ball speed was like 205. Maybe I might have been the dust bit of industry thing that the Justice there 205 to 208. I think it was yeah and the thing just hit the ground. I mean it. I think it carried. It's like I think, if I remember right.
Speaker 2:It landed at 380, 390 right, which is a big ball, but it was downwind, yeah, so a lot. You could almost throw it that far. So he landed about 390 and the bounce between his First ball pitching and where it bounced second was about 40 yards. He just got this Like it hit a runway, carried on, bang, bang, bang, got to the end of the grid I think he was what, 459, something like that, and it was just like, yeah, how do you compete with that? And you can't. You know, I didn't. It was just unbelievable and I literally hit one of the best balls you've ever seen at that point, 151. So I was like 13, 40 miles an hour. Club it's been more pure did 225 and it I think it pitched at 430 and the next pitch was at 433.
Speaker 2:So, I bounce three yards right with perfect shot, perfect swing, perfect everything, perfect spin, perfect launch, and I think it's going boom, boom and it kind of trickled out. I think it trickled out to the 452, but you know, just goes to show some, I say anyone, can I say I'm doing them a little bit of a disservice here, because obviously he won a world championship before that. That was in second one. Yeah, he won one back in by no oh three 2003.
Speaker 2:He won back then when they were using six and five inch drivers and stuff like that. So before my time. But listen to some real champion can't take it away from him in the end.
Speaker 1:Officer, we can't, we can't not talk about your two wins 2010. Well, that's another question I was gonna ask is after you went to talk about 2010, final first Broke, you tell, or something?
Speaker 2:did you? Yeah, last last shot of the Last shot, the tournament. So I wanted so. 2010.
Speaker 2:I was in the final against Dominic Mazza. It was a young kid at the time, he's six, I wasn't exactly old, but he was 16 at the time. He done well. And back then it was a six ball split into two sets of three. So he hit three, I hit three, he hit three, so he is first three, nothing great.
Speaker 2:I stepped up and on my second ball, hit the winning shot, which was 440, and then on the, you obviously sort of finish your set of the. You know, I finished my set of three. That was on the second ball and a third ball. I just swung out of my skin because I kind of knew I'd won. At that point it was a bit of a surreal moment and I thought this listen, there was interwind, it was pretty much the longest ball all night and I kind of knew he had no chance.
Speaker 2:Anyway, obviously just put everything into it and just I felt this bang on my toe when I hit it straight away instantly I was, you know, even with the adrenaline level. Yeah, sort of knelt down to sort of feel my foot and kind of stumbled off About two seconds later. Obviously he went up and again and couldn't beat his. He's shot couldn't be my shot, but I'd obviously won the world championships a minute and a half later. So that sort of pain does soon fade away. But yeah, there was, there was a toe break during the world championship, which I didn't know. You know, I didn't know at the time. I thought I just bruised it. And then I got home a couple of days later from Vegas after some serious celebration and, yeah, I'd actually end up breaking my right big toe, which is a bit of a weird one. Maybe I've done it. I don't know how I've done it. I don't know. Never done anything like it since. I've had a few injuries, with nothing to that severity. But Maybe the adrelean just took over that night.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you hit one down the right hand side of the grid, didn't you? Is that the one I'm thinking about? And then, and then it Kicked about. It took a kick left in there, or something like that.
Speaker 2:Yes, so the wind again you do. You do know your long drive. Yeah, it was. It was a sort of interwind slightly left to right. In for right we're into wind slightly left to right and I hit this ball sort of down the right hand side of the grid, you know, and it was hugging the line, but the way you can see, the wind was just sort of trying to edge it a bit and as it landed I mean, if you had the grid here landed Maybe two or three foot from the, from the line which is obviously thinking you're gonna get a bouncer's gonna take it out, and the thing this sort of pops up and somehow kicked in a little bit inbound and it was like game over at that point. And you know it was, it was a, it was a Freaky moment but, yeah, a good moment at the same time. I mean, I literally thought the funny thing is about that shot, right, it's if you watch the, if you watch it back I've got the footage somewhere. I don't know if it's on YouTube you might catch the end of it.
Speaker 2:I remember hitting that ball. I can still visualize it now, thinking it's going out of bounds, and I went to turn away and all of a sudden in the air. I kind of saw the ball coming back the other way. So you know, it was on one of sometimes when you get one in freaky ones, that kind of goes one way and then it comes to start coming back the other. I remember and you sort of see me, sort of I've had to look away and I look back and it was starting to come back round. I've always remembered that people we Even going back to what I was just saying there it was actually starting to I don't know what a freaky wind or something. It was starting to come back in and then eventually it kicked back into the grid and it was. It was a funny moment, but I can still visualize, I can literally still see that ball going out of bounds and then coming back round. I don't know what it was, but yeah, good, good times anyway, the the the next final.
Speaker 1:On the talk about it, obviously. If you don't talk about it, last Friday it was 2013. That was a good one to watch. For the fan, I'm not sure. Yeah, you missed Tim Burke. I remember that and that could, because you, I think, did Tim hit a good one and then you hit an even better one and then did he get it with, like his last ball. It was like a freak he an absolute.
Speaker 2:It wasn't his last ball, it was his fault. It was. It was his fault. So again got. You had Six balls to sessa, three. He hit his three and I think he, I think we were sitting at 440, and then the fourth. I think it's 440. I hit my three and I was sitting at 440, but we couldn't measure it at the time because it was a live TV broadcast say it was basically two balls sitting in the grid and I think I was done. At that point I'd hit all my six balls. I can't quite remember, you know. So I went first, then Tim went up, so it was the other way around. So then I went up again to hit my last three balls. Obviously got the 440, I think on my last shot. Tim then stepped up for his last three balls and the first ball we just Absolutely nothing. It best ball Tim Burke's ever hit.
Speaker 1:It was never hit again.
Speaker 2:And yeah, it was he done me by about you know 15 yards at night. But I mean, on my defense I was terrible that night. I was absolutely terrible. Right it was, it was just about I wasn't swinging it well, wasn't confident. I thought that's a confident, wasn't why, but I just wasn't swinging it well on the night and the grid was very funny.
Speaker 2:I don't know if you ever saw the grid like you might not think it was in the TV, but Above it was yeah, you was basically on the curve, like curve of the speedway, so obviously the speedway zero, a kind of a funny oval type shape, and when they set it up you kind of had the grid looking. Let's say the grid was straight, you were kind of at an angle, you had the curve of the track going around so it just looked like it was all over the place Visually. Look good on TV and it would have been a great spectacle. They just did to the eye and for the golfer in me just looked really like you couldn't line up properly. It was quite strength anyway.
Speaker 2:That was my excuse on top of everything else. I was, I wasn't swinging it that great and it was. Yeah, that was just that was stepped into. Winner. He, just he was. He was hitting it the best of day before in the practice and he hit it the best that night and, to be fair, I don't even I don't even if I had a ball in me, it would have took me a lot more than six balls to get it that far, to be fair to him.
Speaker 1:You friends of Tim, or is there like do you still? You know a? Was there a banter between you about that, or?
Speaker 2:no, no, I mean Listen, he won a quarter million pound that night, or court million dollars, and I won zero right.
Speaker 1:It was a winner takes all.
Speaker 2:Really, yeah, yeah, it was that's. It was a spectacle. For that reason, it was a winner takes all prize Right, though to become second is a real kick in the teeth. But no, to be honest, I like to turn that to be one of my best pals. I used to stay with him and he went to when I went over to Orlando all the time, and you know we traveled a lot together. We've done a lot of things together with me and him, and no, it's what am I supposed to do? I can't hold it against him right.
Speaker 2:He's not as strong as me and Looking, but he got a little bit of that which killed me. So it took me a while. But no, he's a good friend of mine and we get on great and then we fast forward then to 2060.
Speaker 1:To you, who did you beat in the final that year?
Speaker 2:Steamberg Ryan steamberg.
Speaker 1:Yes. Yeah, yeah but that that's ornament. I, if I remember watching that you, you. It was a bit like 2011. You were sort of the best. It was looking like you were gonna, you're gonna the whole time. Yeah, it was.
Speaker 2:I tell you what if you look. But even if you look back at, I've been 2011. I should have won really Well. I should have done better. 2012 was no good. 2013 obviously come second. 24 wing I Mean I could, I could say I should have one. I didn't. I come full for again. What? Third I? I should have done a lot better there. So I had a run, I don't know, sorry, I had a run of close but no cigars, yeah, and then 15 again. I was killing it.
Speaker 2:And the funny thing is, if you look back at the, I used to get sometimes the shot averages over Over the whole tournament, who got the most balls in play? I was always number one in terms of getting balls in play right. Oh, so I think I average to. I think it was over three or four balls per set, which, back in, you get six balls right. It was obviously quite a lot for at the whole tournament. Some of these guys to getting in one or none and yeah, I was always quite accurate with my golf game was always probably served me quite well for the long drive and and 2016 was a similar sort of thing. I went through all the match play never lost, never looked like losing a set, losing around, and I know I never forget it. I don't ever told anyone a long drive this but I remember in two thousand in 2016, in the final, obviously they'd paid their, their match.
Speaker 2:I was watching Justin James versus Ryan Stingberg in the semi-final and Ryan ended up beating Justin James and I was on the range, obviously just sort of keeping loose, waiting to go on for the next match. I'd already won my set. I don't really won my semi-final. And the lady who was like you get the. Obviously the guys come around. You're like Joe, you got to be in this position here. Right, they're gonna call you five. You've got two minutes, all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2:I'm on the range and the woman come up to me he was a, was a volunteer or she worked for long drive I can't think what it was and she said listen, joe, when you win, just don't hit any more balls. You know, be be me. I just went. If I win, if I wish you went. When you win, don't hit any more balls, because we want it to look good for TV, because it was live, right, so you obviously had a live broadcast and they didn't want you to have a winning shot, say on your full, because I was going second right.
Speaker 2:So, ryan, done his free. I've done my free. No, sir, actually back then it was a, so he done he's for. I've done my four. He went up, done his four again and obviously I'm sorry I scrapped that. I got that wrong. He hit all eight balls. I he's obviously winning dry. He's longest ball I think was 4 or 4, 10 or something like that. Then it was my turn to hit eight balls. I think I won it on my Sixth ball. It's gonna be five or six, now forget, I think it was six and yeah. So basically what I mean is, if you want it on my, if I want it on my first drive, they didn't want, for TV sake, you to go and hit another seven drives like because they'd be like, what do we do? It's like TV, the guy just hitting bullies already one, yeah so he kills that big moment To the moment.
Speaker 2:That's how sort of confident even even the organizers were like yeah just don't hit any more balls.
Speaker 1:That must be a nice feeling.
Speaker 2:That's how, so I'll say that it was a great bit, is a nice story, especially to finish off with the winning well, so it's always one I can tell it if. If I hadn't have one, I probably never told that story ever again. But it turned out, I did win, so obviously a confidence in me was correct and, yeah, I Ended up hitting a good shot. For what was it? 423 In the final, 424, um, again, I could still.
Speaker 1:I could still picture that drive, can almost picture every every good drive ever hit Um do you ever get bored of like not bored, but do you ever take for granted, when you're playing on your own, just what your drop? You know, when you see yourself hitting the ball because we played with bry, like chris has said, and it For those, it's just, it doesn't ever get bored it to see that because you're on your knock on, you know Saying like a few holes on a weeknight. Do you ever think, wow, yeah, like it is impressive. Or you just like that's just my golf game, oh, never.
Speaker 2:Really never, never, good, I've never I've done. I don't know how many shows I've done over the years. I don't know how many you know times I've hit drive. I've hit more, I know. I do know I've hit more drivers than any golf on the planet ever. Yeah, I don't care if you're talking about woods, I don't care if you're talking about jack, I don't care who you're talking about. Then no one's hitting the money drivers. As I have right, I've been doing long-distance professionally since 2000, for 20 years now. Yeah, yeah, and I'm not even talking about my, the recreational play and doing exhibitions and shows and clinics, but all the practice, even to just the practice alone. No one's ever hit more drives of me and it never gets boring of hitting one At, you know absolutely.
Speaker 2:He doesn't but yeah, it's always impressive.
Speaker 2:It's just, I don't know, it's just one of them things I've always, you know I love the Apart from visual. You know the visual aspect of it. You know I've always loved just the hard work and the grind and understanding of it. I've always loved training and the training has always been part of the whole whole thing as well. So it was just, it was just a silly niche sport that was just made for me and it just, it was one of them things that just came good, um, but no, I mean to go to go back to your question. There is nothing better than watch a ball soar Through the sky here, you know, carrying 400 silly odd yards. Sometimes it really is a thing. Beauty, you can talk about clutch, putts all you want and backspid, oh, spun back into the hole. Watch this drive, oh yeah, no, don't leave to me go, josh, I'm never gets boring never gets boring.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can't believe I'm doing this, uh, with someone like Joe on the pod. But, josh, I'm gonna have to stop you here. You know me, that's.
Speaker 2:That's fine, I want to carry you back Josh, get me back on man, we can carry this on all the way, yeah, yeah, I'm talking all the old good times.
Speaker 1:We've got two of the sections to go to, but I do want to. After four we go into the quiz. Just on a final note, in the chat, um, when you're a golfer you know there's good golfers. So if you turn up to, I don't care if you're turned up to the tour championship, uh, your club championship or whatever. Everybody knows who the real best golfer on in that room is, because golf has no golf. Is it on a long drive tour? And you know you decide on yourself whether you answer the question or not. But do you guys know who the longest of you lot are? Is there someone that you think you know he's the one to beat? Is he's the one that everybody kind of thinks? I hope I don't draw him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there is, and and purely only for the fact that you know who the fastest guy is nowadays. That's the real difference. I mean saying that even you're going back 2010 to an 11, when I you know, really started getting into it and I'm obviously winning certain things. Hub speed was never really a thing back then. We didn't, because you never had track man or flight scope until you watched a televised car. So I, no one had it on the brain. No one was working with these launch monitors and no one knew anyone speed right even going. When we was talking about that 2011 win against coal, I had no idea that coal water spoke covered speed was only around the 138 mark, one 40 mark at the time, and I didn't know. I was in in the sort of 150s then. So you almost you know. Back then, everyone knew who Jamie Salowski was and no one wanted to draw Jamie because he was obviously the sort of young, young project he coming up. He don't see one too well champions back to back and he was the guy in lights.
Speaker 2:Nowadays Everyone knows everyone's clubbed speed. Really, we all know that. Carl Martin, who else have you got there now, justin, justin James. Maybe not at peak speed yet, but Justin James can certainly swing it that far. Um, so you know, you know there's guys that can swing it fast and if they hit the ball You're gonna have to have some serious luck to get past them, right? Um, I'm not gonna put myself in that absolute, absolute one, 0.01 percent of guys just yet, because I just haven't competed for four years and I haven't had that real adrenaline buzz yet.
Speaker 2:Um, but, uh, yeah, I mean, they know, everyone knows, and but the weird thing with long drive is everyone still thinks they have a chance. Yeah, because because it's such a yeah I'm in popular term at the moment, it's such a male testosterone sports Um that you always think he goes beating. Yeah, I'd suck this in. Like I say, you know miracles not to maybe not miracles, but there is that odd chance that you know he doesn't quite hit it as well. Or you get six balls out of bounds and you just float one down there. There's still that sort of chance. But you know, really, you gave a guy a thousand balls, you kind of you could, and you know the other guys a thousand balls. You're gonna pretty much find out who the longest is there and you're gonna, you're probably gonna know before you start.
Speaker 1:You know when you're posting on social media. This isn't just Is it for the attention of the fans or for the attention of the other long drivers?
Speaker 2:Certainly not for the attention of women. I only say that because I know my instagram following is like 99 male and like 1% women. Is it for the night? Josh is looking for Josh's name every time I pop up, every time I post something. Now better be getting a like, but no, it's not. It's not for long drivers at all. Um, I think it's more. Is it for the fun? I don't know to now that it depends on what you're doing with instagram.
Speaker 2:For me, personally, I just like to post up Good swings, fast swings, and leave it at that. I don't really come back for comments. You know, sometimes I come back for comments and I have to reply to some of these idiots. Sometimes they're just, they're just talk apps, you know, yeah, I mean, it's the Some of them. Honestly, they're so stupid. That's the away from the question there is. I mean anyone who goes on, you know, and and physically post negative things. You know it's just like guys. What I mean is that really? Is that really your day today is to come on my, come on my page and say look at the swing. I don't know if you've seen it, the video of me. Somehow it's just kept going and going and going. I posted a video about three or four months ago and I snapped a shaft around my neck. Yeah, I'll sweet. I was doing some drills, done the full swing. The clubs come around in. It snapped. He posted up You're gonna get a lot of attention from it.
Speaker 2:Um, again, it's, it's all I know. You know some of it's gonna be negative, but it's attention, right. You're trying to grow your fan base. You're trying to grow Instagram. You know, I've had a lot of work over the years. I mean to go, they're gonna be wrong, right? So, obviously, I know, I know it's gonna get all sorts of attention and for some reason it's just kept going. It's like a slow burner.
Speaker 2:It's just like and I'm some of them recently just think, mate, you know Just what are you, what are you doing? It's not, it's not the old school way of getting on there and really just slagging you off. It's the. It's the sort of they try and be nowadays. They try and be Sort of smart and clever. Yeah, they don't. They don't give you, they don't give you sort of names and they don't say, oh, your shit, or they say this or that. They try and be smart with their comments and you just think you know, if I saw you and you would say something like that person, you just get smashed in the mouth, right. So you, it's, it's, it's funny, it's a funny old world at Instagram. To answer the question, I think it's just purely thought just to get your name out there. Really, nowadays, it's good. You know, we know what it is, we know we're trying to create content and try and get your name out there and try and create a buzz around you.
Speaker 1:That's funny, right, because you hate them. I'm the opposite. I Absolutely honestly, if I, it's such a bonus for me if I go on Twitter or Instagram and on one of your Videos or maybe Rory McRoy's videos or someone likes like the top, top, elite level. There's some amateur golfer who starts this on the sentence with you should like.
Speaker 2:It's great. I mean it is when you really sit back and look here. I mean Rory would have had a lot of it. You know, over the last few years, right, rory was pretty much down there. I can't even remember what world ranking he got down to. Then he's bounced back a lot and done what we're back a week, what we want to see him doing, and you know, just just be right, it's just a good golfer and obviously Tiger Woods before that.
Speaker 2:But he wasn't around the sort of social media part when he was a tie. But you know, there's some of the people that get on there and try and analyze Rory swing. But I mean, I don't know if that's, if that's your thing, I just I just can't see it. I mean, if I ever got on then and sort of slated Rory McRoy for how he's putting, how he's driving or his attitude or this, and that I just want Rory McRoy, I'd love for him to do sometimes it's just to get all the publicity and the press and all that sort of stuff and just go and pay golf, that's, that's my sort of thing. But yeah, sometimes it's comical. He would have got some stick over the years. Oh yeah, he knows how to handle it right.
Speaker 1:He's like Josh, I know you want to comment on Rory, but you can't Too much and too much. Favorite golf is I've got to leave on the wrong.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I go for it, Give me that Okay, it's time. Okay.
Speaker 1:All right, joe. So Josh is a is a decent quiz player here. He doesn't know the question, doesn't? He's not been briefed beforehand. But it's uv? Josh. Okay, it's quick fire. First to answer gets the point. It's out of five. Okay, is this a long drive, or is it on golf? This one, actually this week, is a long drive, slash ride, the cup one.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'm probably gonna get butchered on this. At the moment I haven't been paying too much attention, but go on right, so Hold on.
Speaker 1:There's a if you want to tell the stakes. There's a pint on this job, yeah.
Speaker 2:Just the one. Yeah, I take paper.
Speaker 1:I take paper.
Speaker 2:I will send it your way before.
Speaker 1:What we said we're gonna build towards those. Actually, joe, we, we I've unfollowed you. Unfollowed you on instagram so that our account stands out as a kid, as like, like when used to flirt with someone in school and sort of make your account stand out. So. But what we said is that we're gonna build towards something where it's me and zack v you and josh in a match.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:All right all right sound of that, yeah that'll be a time where we can put a pint on it. Why not?
Speaker 2:that'd be good. Yeah, I listen. I've got a hook up with zack at some point anyway, so We'll have to. We'll have to see if we can make it a four ball somewhere.
Speaker 1:And no disrespect to anybody on this chat, but I take my chances with that goal. Yeah, well, you know, see me and Joe play yet.
Speaker 2:I listen, well, listen once you. Once they see that flipping driver getting ripped on the first day, they won't even they walk straight in that one. None of that he.
Speaker 1:This one's quick fire because I've heard the answer today. Right, so it's just off the mark, right? Who won the world? Live the world long drive championship in 2022? Yeah, one little, joe. I've been trying to my mind there. One little. This will be Jordan Spieth's. What number? Ride the cup appearance Four? No, so you're Three. No, so you both go again. Five, five, five. Well, this is gonna be his faith. Yeah, yeah, something is. He really is very fine and, surprisingly, given his um out of form and he was out of form this is also gonna be Ricky Fowler's fifth.
Speaker 2:No, I can see Spieth. I want a full five, but yeah, I want.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's not done. I'm surprised I followed as well. Both of them, really. Um, okay, one one. Question three what was the and this nearest two? Now, okay, what was the longest drive on tour this season? 437.
Speaker 2:That's yours, oh, nearest two. Should I go higher or lower? I think I'm gonna go higher 438.
Speaker 1:Because he's gone high in his one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I thought I had a feeling it was in the 40s 440.
Speaker 1:But it's, it's actually 459, 459. They go to Mexico, don't they? Once a year or something?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm not sure, I'll tell someone this one was it, mexico, this year Was it, was that where it was.
Speaker 1:But the person was Luke List.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just funny enough. I think I'd seen. I didn't pay too much attention, but I did see the silly numbers and I thought that does. That stuck in the head a little bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so two on. Joe there two on Joe. Question four which course will host the 2025 ride the car Whistling straight? No.
Speaker 2:So you're out? Yeah, I don't have no idea now.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't even, I wouldn't even have to guess at that at the moment.
Speaker 1:Josh, you can guess if you want. Again, I haven't got no idea. Pebble beach Is it? Now it's Beth page black in New York. I didn't know that, but I've just heard of it.
Speaker 2:Hmm.
Speaker 1:Josh, you're playing for the draw. Joe, you're playing to beat him, right? Who, considering this year's rider cup, is in Italy? Yeah, I'm gonna help you both out here, right? Don't jump to your first answer. Okay, who was the first italian to play in a rider cup? Eduardo Mollanarli, no. Brava no oh.
Speaker 2:Oh, first Italian. You say Italian to win you yeah to play in a ride the cup.
Speaker 1:So the initial that cr. Do we know him? Do we definitely know him?
Speaker 2:There's not many Italian golfers. That's the problem. What year?
Speaker 1:I don't know the year. Actually, I tried to find the year, but I couldn't find it quick enough. Christof Romero no. Constantino Rocca Rocca.
Speaker 2:Rocca. Just about the same. That wasn't cool. I never would have thought that, yeah, well done, well done, joe, you beat him there. Boys, I tell you what I'm so unprepared for that, and I still want to just go to show talent shows for who they are.
Speaker 1:Street Riders to the top. That's my second loss. Now I'm two. What have I done? Two draws, two losses and the rest wins. Yeah, who else? So you lost to Joe and lost to Eddie. Yeah, yeah, the other co-host, the original co-host, is lost too. So, okay, time for the Look, don't worry about it pal don't worry about it.
Speaker 2:I know she took a drink from the other side there, which is obviously where the vodka is. You've been reaching to the left, and now you've been surprised.
Speaker 1:I think his idea, joe, was to mess with the partnership before or whenever we play that match.
Speaker 2:I think they're trying to get into our hands. Don't worry, listen, don't worry Me. And you were still on me and you were down the pieces. That's no good. Anyway, he just seems to treat me as an overshadowing.
Speaker 1:Okay, ready for the weekly discussion.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I thought it would be a good week to hold this discussion. It's been going on for, I think God knows, I think for as long as golf has gone on. It feels like this has gone on for eternity. It's so old now, but I want to talk about stripping the ball back, given that we've got someone who's the ball or mile and Joe Miller on the podcast.
Speaker 1:I'm old enough, but I found the original quote, which was at the start of the conversation. So the quote goes like this the USGA and RNA recently announced the proposal to create a model local rule where highly skilled golfers must use a different golf ball from 2026 onwards. This will introduce bifurcation don't know what that means into our sport, meaning that you, the average golfer, will play with different equipment than the professionals. So I don't know who wants to come in first on the rollback of the golf ball.
Speaker 2:I mean not even. Actually. I haven't heard about this for a while now. Obviously this was a thing about a year ago or so, maybe when they first started talking about it. And coming from my point, I suppose I could come from the other point of view, but, being me, no, I don't want to see her, I want to see the big drives. I don't think we see enough of it.
Speaker 2:I do know, as we said earlier in the podcast we were talking, distance is the main dominant thing. Now my only issue is this is purely now if that's the way they're going to go about it, this is purely just to save golf courses. Because if you're given, if me and you go out tomorrow and I hit 400 yards off the tee and you're hitting 300 yards off the tee and we roll back this golf ball unless for some reason they make it where you still hit 300 yards and I have to hit three, you know I lose somehow. You know 50 yards, 100 yards, whatever. It will be off here. So it's not designed for fast club speed, it's more designed for slower club speed.
Speaker 2:I just don't get it. I just can't see how in any way, if two guys go out, one hits it 100 yards past him. If you both have to now roll back the golf ball, you're just rolling back in the same place anyway, I mean. So he's still going to be 300 yards, whereas you might now only be 200 yards off the tee. So I just don't get it. I understand it coming from their point of view that some of these golf courses now are just redundant. I mean your background. There is almost a redundant golf course. Right, the weather's good. You know that hole. I'm looking at the 18th there. You know, I almost drove that with a putter one. Yeah, just because you can, because it's rock hard ground. But do they want to see that? Do they want to see McElroy step up on the 18th and just hit it straight on the green, like we saw when Cameron comes in?
Speaker 1:Talking about St Andrews, by the way, which is the St.
Speaker 2:Andrews. Yeah, sorry guys For those who aren't seeing it, the background St Andrews, in the 18th, over the bridge, is, you know, I think, roy McElroy. Even when he was playing. I think he was in the group before, wasn't he? And he drove straight on the green from the first place. Do you want to see that as the last hole, or do you want to see him hitting a wedge, or seven iron or five iron, onto that course to finish the round? I don't know. I just it's obviously. I think it's more.
Speaker 2:I think and this is a very quick observation it must just be purely to save golf courses. I can't see how it's going to do anything other than that McElroy is still going to be leading the drive in distance. Or who's up there at the moment? You're Dustin Johnson, you're Ram's, some of the other, not the top 10 boys, but who's the longest on the tour at the moment? They're still going to be the longest on tour. So is it purely just for the fact that they need to save some of these golf courses from these guys? Now? Is golf moved on that far? Is the drive in average moved on that far? I don't think it has. Driver technology hasn't changed for maybe 10, 15 years. I could pick up a driver from 2015 and still hit the same club at speed, and both speed. I understand it's more forgiving, I understand they are the balls are a bit longer but I can't. I don't know, I don't know. This is a safer course. This is a safer game of golf than it is, I think, anything else.
Speaker 1:Really, I think that they should one, I would say, fairly simple answer. It wasn't my answer, actually, it came from someone that I thought on Twitter who's probably much wiser than me, but they had a brilliant response to it. So leave the golf ball alone, leave the golfers alone, but go back to a driver club head that isn't 460 degrees, 460cc, because you can swing at that, as we all know, at full pelt. You know, even at the worst of times, but you've got to be more careful with the driver. That's 380, 400cc or whatever, and then that in itself will naturally lead to people trying to be safer off the tee. If it's what people want to see, I don't personally know, because one thing I'd be aware of is we, as amateurs, want to play the same equipment as the top pros.
Speaker 1:So if all of a sudden you long drivers and the likes of Rory and Scottish Sheffield and John Rahmer using different clubs, then all I'm going to do is go on eBay and look for pro using Nike clubs or putting on Nike anymore but pro using tightest club, because that's what I'll buy, and then you'll just create a new market which will waste time. In five years we'll all have the same clubs again, because I like being sold the same clubs that the top pros are using Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely. It's a good point. I mean, I did have another point on this, but on a separate issue. Pros have always used a different ball anyway, because a lot of people don't realise. But if you ever go into a Callaway Tour truck, which I had the pleasure of going into for a few years the ball they're using is the one that's coming out next year or it's a slightly different version of the one that is sold. The chrome soft that is sold in the shops, slightly harder, slightly dimmer there, slightly more that. So the ball has always been slightly different anyway, right, as has the drivers. But, you're right, the kids, especially the kids. Now right. If the next big thing comes on, the next more macro woods comes on and he's using XY driver, the kids want to use what he's using, especially the kids, more so than me. Also the Nuss.
Speaker 2:I've got to a point now where I don't care what the clubs are. I understand how to use them, and especially for driving, for golfing. But the kids coming up, the juniors coming up, they want to. You see it every day and you don't realise it. The juniors turn up fully dressed hat, glove, trousers, belt, shoes. They all turn. You know, macroe was the not macroe bowler was the thing for a while. All the kids turned up dressed in orange, had the flat cap. You know they want to impersonate the golfers and that they're going to turn around and say well, here's the equipment you can't buy. I know it's slightly detuned version, but I don't know. Is that the right thing, especially for the juniors coming up? You're going to give juniors a bit of an advantage on the golf ball. You're going to give them a longer golf ball and when they start getting serious at it, you know this 16, 17, 18, you know good amateur golfers that are playing off plus figures. Now you've got to switch their ball just to dive the golf courses.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's an odd one because you know at what point do you even introduce it into the amateur game in terms of people want to go pro. And then, if you do, where do you introduce it? Because there's going to be yeah, you could introduce it to say, the US Open, but the US amateur or the British amateur, but then there's going to be some amateurs who have just clicked into that one. Do you know when? There's going to be a step difference in the ball. So I think it's an odd, I think it's a, like you said, I think it's to save courses more than anything. But then you think about the shorter is on the PGA tour who are going driver three words, sometimes full wedge into par fives. What are they going to be doing then? I mean, if it means for all of you, what are they going to be doing?
Speaker 2:They're just not going to be doing that? No, exactly. So I mean they can't. They can't. Obviously the ball is going to have to be. It's not like you can do one ball for I don't know, a short hit on tour and another ball for the longest guy on tour, right? So, yeah, exactly. All you've done is just knock every single player in the tour back 20 yards. It's probably going to be roughly a 20 yard distance. Hold on a full, any lesson there and it's just it'll be ridiculous. But I don't know it's going to be a lot of money. I know how much some of these companies spend on R&D. I know Calaway. One year, I think they were spending 50 million R&D in terms of Golf ball technology and that's probably somewhere slightly behind tightness right, and Taylor made obviously Taylor made a big ball in the tour now, but I don't know. That's I think I think manufacturers are going to hate it. I think the tour players, I think, are going to hate it and I think some of the courses that I say are on the way out. I don't know, I just can't. I don't see how. It's a big deal.
Speaker 2:You could do a lot more things you could. You could not cut the fairways like Marvel Surfaces. For a start, you might want to build up the rough around the thing. You could narrow the fairways down a little bit. You know that's the one complaint you always get, don't you?
Speaker 2:When you hear these, when it's the US Open, yeah, you know the rush of ridiculous, the rush of ridiculous. As soon as they give it that course, all the players chump up and say this is just ridiculous. How many times have you heard it over the years? Yeah, you know, drop, drop on Instagram and it disappears about six foot of rough and they're like how are we supposed to play on there? That's the only thing that gets on the players. They don't care if McAway's driving the green or Woodsy's driving the green. They want to see that. They want to see that spectacle. It's good for TV.
Speaker 2:So I don't know, I think that's a bad decision. Whether that will last or not, I don't know, but yeah, it's a long ground. It's a long ground. And, like you say, when do they introduce that ball? If a guy's got down to a good plus four, plus five is an amateur and the next thing, you know, he has to step on the US amateur and he's all of a sudden given the ball. He doesn't know how far to hit it, he doesn't know how it spins, doesn't know how far you wedge or gaps in. I think yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, he's done, isn't it? It's done there, and then it's a strange one. It's strange.
Speaker 1:They've more or less said that it won't go any further anyway because of the deal that's been stuck between the PJ Tour and the PIF. So in the sort of comeback letter from what's his name? His name is.
Speaker 2:Jay Monahan.
Speaker 1:Jay Monahan had basically said to the players and considering that the top players on tour are all hitting the ball far, he's basically said to them that we will vote against any movement to roll back the golf ball, I think trying to keep it on side because he more than desperately needs to now, doesn't he? But yeah, it's been interesting. I don't think it'll go anywhere because there's too many factors involved. It's not as simple as just yeah, let's roll back the golf ball.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like I said, that is a big cost, massive cost like you wouldn't believe, unless there's some easy, quick fix that these club companies know. But to say to the guys right, guys, there's a limit on the ball now, like they've done with the driver to a point. Yeah, in terms of face thickness, that point is quite easy. I would have thought before a golf ball, to design it. Now you've got to go back, you've got to work on the spin, you've got to work out how it flies and you've got to learn the golf ball as well. That's the thing. You can stand there and bang it right. There's no problem With a ball. You've got to learn every single club in the bag. It will have an inherent reacts off the face. You've got to learn. That's a lot.
Speaker 2:It's a big one, and I'll you know, the elephant in the room as well is is live golf going to do the same or is live golf just going to go that? Boys, we just want to see you smash it miles and enjoy the game, right, which is what they've been doing. Yeah, now that PJ's rolling it back. It's always a negative, it's always, you know, roll it back. There's a limit on that, right, you can't do that, you can't do this. I don't know. It's not a very I wouldn't say that's a positive in any shape or form. Personally no.
Speaker 1:I think we, I think we probably agree on that. Yeah, for one cell or the gasser.
Speaker 2:I got to get off the top. You can edit this one if you want. Off the top of my head, we talk about rolling back the size of the head of the driver. I've always said that the driver for long drive should be slightly smaller anyway, because it makes more aerodynamic. Yeah.
Speaker 2:If you ever pick up. Not, this is a. It's a quite a close comparison. If you ever pick up a speed stick, the reason speed sticks, what they use to train sometimes which not for me personally but if you ever pick up on the end, the reason they are so fast is because it's a small weight that's a lot more aerodynamic than a big four CC head. Yeah, all right, so you make all the sun that four CC, four hundred and sixty CC head smaller and let's say you go back to like the three seventies edition on the three sixties. We've got to swing that, try everything faster. Yeah, so it would you know you could just do that.
Speaker 2:It's sort of I get it. It's a lot more unforgiving, but it's a you couldn't. I mean, that is, you couldn't even do that really. But I see, though you know I'm a long driver, what do I know?
Speaker 1:I just bought a speed stick, Joe, so like I've put it in the bin after that.
Speaker 2:They have a small place. I'll be honest with you. They have a small place in the bin. In normal golf, in long drive, they have no place. And to anyone again, this is part of what we talked about was that for anyone who is slightly trained, in terms of if you're ever stepped foot in a gym, they hold no place whatsoever?
Speaker 2:So if you are working out right, if you're sort of getting strong, which look like a fit guy, young fit guy, apart from the amount of your beer drinking talking about If you are slightly trained, if you've lifted a few weights and you're stronger than you was, let's say, a couple of months ago or a year ago or three years ago, they don't offer much. That's a public one, so it's on the squat rack then. Exactly that's where the gains are made. That's where the gains are made. It's actually going to kill me for not getting enough of the programming, but yeah, strength is the real key. Anyone who wants to hit the ball furthest, get stronger. Yeah, that's what our program is going to be Now. Enjoy the speed sticks. Speed sticks is great. You're doing great. Just do your favor. Leave the speed stick stuff until after our football. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think that's as good a time as any to end it there, so we can give you your time back to Joe, as well, wow, a pleasure boys Anytime, enjoy the good conversation. If you could just finish with a recap, for anyone listening, of how to find you and what's coming up over the next few weeks as well.
Speaker 2:Okay, so Joe Miller LDC is the best place to find me on Instagram. I am on Twitter and Facebook as well, but Instagram is 99% of my social media really. And coming up over the next, what is it? It's going to be almost three weeks. I think it's just under three weeks a day on the 16th of September yeah, it's the European Championship, which would be my first event for four years, so I look forward to that. One Could be an interesting outcome, could be a disappointing one, or it could be a good one.
Speaker 1:How can we watch that then?
Speaker 2:Is that? That's a good question. I think it's going to be an edited TV show, I think. I'm not 100% sure. I do know it's under Thudlite, so I'm gathering there's obviously going to be a bit of work going into that. They're not at the stage of doing live broadcasts for sure, so worst case, it will be probably streamed on what you call it YouTube. Yeah, and the results will be posted up live. We know that. But yeah, maybe long onto mine on Saturday night and you might find out who won.
Speaker 1:If it's me, you'll find out. It wasn't me.
Speaker 2:That's a good one, yeah 16th of September is what we're building up for, so should be good.
Speaker 1:I'll be looking forward to that, seeing you and Brian and everyone sort of bow out for that. And then your program with Zach. Is it through Dr Golf?
Speaker 2:Yeah, zach's app. So, zach's app. I suppose the best way for everyone is to go on either my page, instagram, or Zach's page, which is Dr Golf, and click the link in the bio. If you've got Zach's app already, it's obviously going to be on there and you're going to be getting emails soon. But, yeah, go check it out. If increase in distance is your thing, this might be a. I'd say it's not a fresh take, it's just this is how I've done it over the years, so I can tell you it works. I'm not going to tell you what you're doing at the moment doesn't work, but I can definitely tell you that this does work and it's kind of a very not a simple approach, because there's a lot of years that go behind it, but it's a very, it's a very clean cut approach. There's no muscle, there's no mucking about it, there's no content. For content's sake, it's it's. This works. This is what you got to do. Can you do it?
Speaker 1:I've got to ask you on the thing now. But is your aim to get to the world's next year?
Speaker 2:Actually, I've been off to go this year. They've almost. They've almost to a point not, I'm not going to say they beg at all, but they, they, they gave me an invite to this event has gone in Tennessee. They said, look, come over and. And they stepped back in because the organizers are working with my agent, george Grass. He might be even how many you want to speak to in terms of agency. That's another side of it.
Speaker 2:He was a tour agent for a long time and so so world long drive are saying bed in bed is probably the wrong word, but they're in bed with George and his business partner in the States and they're sort of building the website and doing other things and doing the scoring and they've got something. They've got a package going on. I don't know exactly what it is, but they keep speaking with George Mike Hambricks, who was the sort of right hand man for years in terms of long drive. So you know where's Joe, where's when, coming back? He's an invite. They've invited me to the next event in in LA. I think it is somewhere in California. They've invited me to that, but I just, I was just not in the position at the moment about other things going on. It's just that it's unfortunate. I've been waiting four years to get back at it, and every time it seems to come around, I seem to have this other stuff going on and life, life.
Speaker 2:Life's going on. Unfortunately, it's not the right word, but life is going on at the moment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's just the way it is. But yeah, they, they, they want me back. I want to get back. To be honest, if it was, I feel quietly confident in making the top eight and probably going a few steps further, right, but here's what it is at the moment. So next year there's always next year is the British stiff up a lip, but it's, I'm running out of years. I want to get back to it soon. Yeah, looking forward to that. I thought to seeing it, yeah, yeah, we'll be back. That's why I'm going to do this. This smaller event. It's local-ish I mean Germany, obviously compared to the States, but it's more local. I can hop over and one day do the event, fly back the following and, yeah, we'll see what happens. It'll, and it'll probably give me a little bit of a warm up. You know I'm confident, but like I say I'm not, I'm not silly as well. I've been out for four years, right, I'm sure there's going to be that little bit of rust to knock off first and see what happens.
Speaker 1:Nice one, joe, I hope you don't mind me pestering you this time next week. Send one. No, I'll do it. Nice one.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for your time. Send in a pin across boys, Thanks for the show.
Speaker 1:Really I appreciate it. Thank you. See you next week. Big thing. Bye-bye definitely.
Speaker 2:Thank you, bye, bye.
